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| 81. Author: jake89 Date: Fri 13th Oct 2023. 19:50 How many Palestinians have been killed by Israeli forces in the last decade? Compare that figure with the number of Israelis killed by Hamas. It must be around 20x more Palestinians. Neither side is one that deserves supporting. They both have blood on their hands. Reply |
| 82. Author: Tad Allagash Date: Fri 13th Oct 2023. 21:57 KyivNotKiev was a campaign to get English-language news outlets to use the Ukrainian derived spelling rather than the Russian derived spelling. To be fair to the BBC, it seems they changed the spelling before the war, but I only noticed when it was suddenly in the news frequently. The BBC style guide leads to some awkward stilted reporting, and the use of euphemism when reporting atrocities isn’t being impartial. Reply |
| 83. Author: red-star-par Date: Fri 13th Oct 2023. 21:57 How anyone can defend what Israel are about to do is beyond me. Especially people like PARrot who pretends to be a Christian. Reply |
| 84. Author: jake89 Date: Fri 13th Oct 2023. 22:27 Israel cutting off the internet to Gaza to prevent people sharing what`s going on. This isn`t a defence, this is extermination. Reply |
| 85. Author: red-star-par Date: Fri 13th Oct 2023. 22:52 jake89, Fri 13 Oct 22:27 It`s going to be a holocaust. We are about to witness a weekend of genocide Reply |
| 86. Author: sammer Date: Sat 14th Oct 2023. 00:18 `Israel have ALWAYS been the terrorists in this conflict, but that`s a controversial thing to say, apparently.` It`s not controversial to anyone familiar with the history of Israel, which PARrot is apparently not. Some say Israel was founded on terrorism but that I think that is an overstatement: there were, for what it`s worth, a Balfour Declaration and UN edicts. However the activities of Israeli paramilitary groups was acknowledged and has been celebrated by Israelis ever since as a major contribution in forming the State of Israel. At least two Prime Ministers of Israel were members of terrorist organisations, rather in the Adams/McGuiness fashion. They did not only kill British officials and soldiers in Palestine but also had plans, unsuccessfully carried out, to bomb government agencies in London around 1946.Winston Churchill and Ernest Bevin were reportedly on their hit list. I think there was a bomb attack in Manchester around this time but as you can imagine some information available in the past is not available now in these heightened times. There was certainly a UK letter bomb campaign. The Israeli contribution to what we now call terrorism, or urban guerrilla warfare, is as significant as Henry Ford to the mass produced automobile. Car bombings, kidnappings, hostages, grenade attacks on buses, roadside bombs, enemies strapped to vehicles as human shields: they led the way. Everyone thereafter has worked from their template, including it seems Hamas. Although Hamas only operate within historic Palestine borders. The conflict in Palestine is no more religious than the conflict I recall in Northern Ireland for much of my life. The first Prime Minister of Israel was an atheist as were others like Golda Meir who followed him. Yasser Arafat was more Socialist I suspect than a Muslim. Agree or disagree these were real politicians with a depth of character now almost completely absent. The rightward shift in US, UK and Israeli politics since the early 1980s has reduced us to this medieval nonsense, echoed to some extent by Hamas themselves. sammer Reply |
| 87. Author: sammer Date: Sat 14th Oct 2023. 04:19 Genocide is an emotive word , so we must be careful how we use it. The statements about Palestinians being `animals` would certainly suggest a genocidal motivation. Driving Palestinians out of Gaza would certainly respond to the right wing fascist element of the Israeli government, who could claim the Palestinians left of their own accord. So no genocide required, same as if the Jews had gone off to Madascagar, as was mooted at one time. At heart, the Israeli have always loved Palestine They just don`t want the Palestinians in the way. God decided that some time ago, and who, in the atheist west, dare argue with him?. Not Keir Starmer for sure. The way they`re going , Israel are in big danger of being banned from the Eurovision Song Contest. That`ll show them. sammer Reply |
| 88. Author: PARrot Date: Sat 14th Oct 2023. 05:15 Dave_1885, Fri 13 Oct 18:39 Quite simply yes I am aware and no it isnt acceptable.  Reply |
| 89. Author: PARrot Date: Sat 14th Oct 2023. 05:18 red-star-par, Fri 13 Oct 21:57 If the circumstances were not so tragic I would piss myself at that ridiculous comment. I dont like what Israel is doing at all, but I dont see what choice they have. I fear for the innocents on both sides. Reply |
| 90. Author: PARrot Date: Sat 14th Oct 2023. 05:28 sammer, Sat 14 Oct 00:18 Some valid points but unfortunately that doesn`t always lead to the right conclusion. I have always argued with folk who say religion causes all wars. Religion is responsible for very few wars. This one however is 100% religious and it is all about Jerusalem. The Arab nations dont give a flying shot about Palestine or the Palestinians, they are using them in a futile attempt to take control of Jerusalem. More on this later I`m too busy just now. Reply |
| 91. Author: PARrot Date: Sat 14th Oct 2023. 07:44 Some perspective from both sides. https://youtu.be/xnf40sbcvkk?si=cssxclmjzl1p7d9v Post Edited (Sat 14 Oct 07:47) Reply |
| 92. Author: Buspasspar Date: Sat 14th Oct 2023. 08:15 Jan Egeland, the Norwegian former diplomat who was involved with the Oslo Accord and facilitated talks between the Palestinians and Israel, tells BBC Radio 4`s Today programme that Israel`s evacuation order for northern Gaza is a forced transfer of people, considered a war crime under the Geneva Convention. Egeland, who is secretary general of the Norwegian Refugee Council. adds there is now no practical way of approaching the humanitarian "catastrophe" underway in Gaza. There are "many children under the rubble that no-one can dig out... tens of thousands destroyed or unliveable housing units... thousands of people fleeing for their lives," he says. Egeland says the scale of the crisis in Gaza has not yet been grasped fully by the West. "The UK, US and EU have rightfully said we`re with Israel in fighting terror," Egeland adds. " I hope they haven`t given a green light to smash a million children." We are forever shaped by the Children we once were Reply |
| 93. Author: Dave_1885 Date: Sat 14th Oct 2023. 12:12 And there we go….confirmed that Israel have killed children yesterday whilst striking a convoy heading south after their instruction to do so…… Come on Rishi, lets hear you defend this one as Israel right to defend themselves… Reply |
| 94. Author: OzPar Date: Sat 14th Oct 2023. 13:16 There are some interesting observations there from Sammer. Few would dispute that the terrorists of recent decades were heavily influenced by the Israeli paramilitary groups of the 1940s in the years up to the ending of the British Mandate. Whether it is the Provisional IRA, Al Qaeda, or Hamas, their leaders would surely acknowledge a contribution to their efforts from Menachem Begin`s book, `The Revolt`, which described the rationale and mechanics of the Irgun paramilitary group he led in Israel. Even Nelson Mandela tipped his hat to that work in reviewing the early activities of the ANC. I can`t entirely agree with Sammer`s claim that it is an overstatement to say Israel was founded on terrorism because all the evidence would suggest that it was. My father was a paratrooper with the 6th Airborne Division during WW2. He came through D-Day, 6 June 1944, taking part in the early morning attacks on the enemy. He survived winter in the Ardennes supporting the Americans, and he anxiously looked down on his younger brother, who was with the Cameron Highlanders as they gathered on the edge of the River Rhine, while he prepared to jump out of a DC3 well behind enemy lines. On their advance through Germany to Wismar on the Baltic, they came across the Bergen-Belsen Concentration Camp. They didn`t stay long, as they were tasked to advance at speed, but they waited until support arrived and saw enough to grasp the horror of what the Nazis had delivered on the Jews. They certainly played a part in liberating the prisoners in that horrific concentration camp. But they weren`t to find much appreciation from the Jews. Shortly after the war ended, the paratroopers were sent to Palestine to police the British Mandate, and there they found themselves facing Irgun, Hagunnah and the Stern Gang. There were several atrocities, including the hanging of two soldiers whose bodies were booby-trapped, ensuring those who went to cut them down were blown to smithereens. Not long after the paras arrived, Irgun blew up the King David Hotel in Jerusalem, killing 90+ people, including 28 British personnel. The leader of the Irgun that day was Menachem Begin. He created the right-wing Likud party and became Israel`s 6th prime minister. Today, Likud is the party led by none other than Benjamin Netanyahu. Bibi Netanyahu is a pygmy. He is a classic case of inadequate wee brother syndrome. His older brother, Yoni, is a true hero of Israel. He would likely be Israel`s PM today, but unfortunately, he was killed, leading the successful operation to free more than a hundred Jewish hostages at Entebbe Airport in Uganda in 1976. Sadly, Palestinians have been paying for Bibi`s sense of inadequacy ever since. Reply |
| 95. Author: OzPar Date: Sat 14th Oct 2023. 13:47 So what can be done to stop the madness and prevent genocide? Could the UN practically intervene? Could a negotiated settlement be arranged before we reach a mutually destructive endgame? Does the UN have the power or even the will to demand a ceasefire? Perhaps more importantly, could the much-vaunted two-state solution be abandoned in favour of a one-state solution where all citizens have equal human rights, where all men and women are equal under the law, regardless of religion or ethnicity? In other words, could a situation arise where walls and fences around Gaza and the West Bank are pulled down, so those people currently enclosed become part of the nation of Israel? Could the Israelis find the will to tear down the new settlements in the Golan Heights and return the land to Syria if the surrounding Arab nations agreed to allow a unified Israel comprising Jews, Arabs and Palestinians to live under a single democratic authority? Israel has the demographics significantly in its favour. It has a population of 9.5 million, of which a tad over 2 million are Arab/Palestinian. Surely there is room to negotiate an equal place for everyone? South Africa managed to do the seemingly impossible 30 years ago. A central part of that was the Truth and Reconciliation Commission. If the parties here could agree to a similar process, then perhaps Israel could find a new way to accommodate everyone without unnecessary discrimination. In other words, end apartheid. Is this too much to ask if lasting peace can be achieved in the Middle East? Reply |
| 96. Author: GG Riva Date: Sat 14th Oct 2023. 14:38 OzPar, Sat 14 Oct 13:47 Excellent post, Oz. If only Hamas and Netanyahu had your vision and foresight.  Not your average Sunday League player. Reply |
| 97. Author: Buspasspar Date: Sat 14th Oct 2023. 14:39 Very good post OzPar We are forever shaped by the Children we once were Reply |
| 98. Author: Buspasspar Date: Sat 14th Oct 2023. 15:26 A former Hamas leader has said that what the militants did last Saturday was "an attempt to end the Israeli occupation" and that he is "proud" of them. Speaking to Turkey`s Haberturk TV, Hamas`s head of foreign affairs Khalid Meshal added the conflict did not start last week, but in 1948. "Israel has been saying that their army was the strongest and undefeatable. When we saw that they were defeated in a few hours, we were surprised, too," he said. When asked about Hamas murdering civilians, children and the elderly, he said: "We kept telling them not to do that. But in war times, these incidents can happen. Isn`t it what Israel always says, that they didn`t do it [kill civilians] on purpose?" Asked whether Hamas has done the same as it accuses Israel of doing, Meshal said there was a "big difference": "We are the owners of this land. When the enemy comes from outside, either soldiers or civilians, they are all enemies. Whoever comes to my land [to occupy] is enemy, and guilty." We are forever shaped by the Children we once were Reply |
| 99. Author: donj Date: Sat 14th Oct 2023. 17:00 So Netanyahu lied about safe routes to evacuate as they commit air strikes on the fleeing people.Obviously this was self defence not terrorism. A convoy of vehicles carrying fleeing civilians from Gaza to the southern half of the strip that was traveling on a route marked supposedly as a “safe route” has been struck by a deadly airstrike, according to analysis. Reply |
| 100. Author: Andrew283 Date: Sat 14th Oct 2023. 17:12 donj, Sat 14 Oct 17:00 Sickening Reply |
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