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| 101. Author: sammer Date: Sat 14th Oct 2023. 23:28 I can only echo GG Riva`s point that OZpar`s post on Palestine was probably as good as anything I have ever read on this site, either on football or politics. If the people on here, or on the streets across the world today , are capable of trying in our clumsy way to find some form of peace in this world, why the hell are our politicians not responding to this? sammer Reply |
| 102. Author: Andrew283 Date: Sun 15th Oct 2023. 08:35 sammer, Sat 14 Oct 23:28 Because Israel buys western weapons so our governments pass a blind eye to their war crimes. Reply |
| 103. Author: hurricane_jimmy Date: Sun 15th Oct 2023. 12:33 Two good pals of mine in the US can give different perspectives. One has worked as an exec in various different companies in NYC and could tell you some very interesting stories about Hasidic Jews buying up building, evicting the non-Hasidic tenents and moving their extended families. He was also running health centres in the poorer burghs and these were hasidic-owned and the money these folk were making off Obama-care was insane. All-the-while they treat their wives like **** and buy influence with politicians on both sides öf the Senate. They do the same in Israel, basically ensuring that their kids don`t have to serve in the IDF. The second is half-Russian Jew and despises Likud and is quite convinced that Bibi is trying to create an Ashkenazi ethno-state. Case and point would be the treatment of the local Christians. Personally I`ve always rejected arguments that the Jews are a race as there four Jewish races: Ashkenazi, Sephardic, Mizradi and then the Beta Israelis. Quite a few Zionists you meet are blissfully unaware of this and how the Ashkenazis like Likud treat the other groups. One thing I`ve always found interesting is that everyone remembers the 6Mn Jews that died in the Holocaust, but I do wonder how many people are also aware of the near 11Mn Slavs who also perished? My Grandfather flew Spitfires from 1940-47 and his post-war service included training Iraqi, Iranian, Saudi, Turkish and Israeli pilots. Following this he was offered command of his own flight school in India but opted for discharge because India was too hot and he didn`t like spicy food (true story). He always said the Arabs and Turks were very fundamentalist in their religious beliefs and let it take over their lives, while the Israelis in his eyes were the same and said what they did to the Palestinians was as bad as what they Germans did to them. This was from a man who was quite decidedly Christian. Hamas are most definitely a terrorist organisation and funded from across the Middle East, including the big players like Iran, Saudi and Egypt. If you go into the politics of the Palestinian Authority, you`ll find that there are so many small parties and no real coordination among the more reasonably-minded Palestinians and they havent had an election for the PA in about 25 years if memory serves correctly. That said, I very much doubt Hamas would exist in their current form if it wasnt for the way theyve been starved of basic resources like land, food and water. When this is unquestionably going on, what does anyone expect? I`ve met many a young Israeli who detest the religous nationalism that has infected Israeli Politics but, unfortunately, they compose quite a small minority. Now it`s likely that theyll be even smaller. Make no mistake, the Israeli policy toward the Palestinians is genocidal, but they have always been very careful to adopt a gradualist approach so they can argue that its not. What is quite likely is that the majority responsible for the attacks on Israelis have fled to Egypt or elsewhere and those left are Palestinian civilians. In light of that, there is absolutely no excuse for a ground invasion of Gaza and the bombing campaign. Nor is there an excuse for the support the Israelis are receiving when their crimes are simultaneously ignored. The link to Russia and China is interesting. While it wouldnt surprise me, I know Bibi has been very careful not to upset the Russian and Ukrainian populations but I`m not sure how public opinion is among the Russian-Israeli community. Most people are also blissfully unaware of just how much the Chinese age interfering across the world, but the extent is quite terrifying. I wouldnt be surprised if you see the CCP and United Russia being opportunistic here and taking a cynical chance to try and generate some positive PR. One over-arching issue is that followers of the Middle-Eastern mythologies are the first to play the discrimination card if their ideology is the subject of Criticism, yet demand respect for their own beliefs and always push to enshrine them in law. You see this from Jew, Christian and Muslim alike. Definitely not surprised that those on here with Christian-leanings are pro-Israeli. I`m just glad that Scotland and Sweden are both now majority non-religious and by-and-large we can separate ourselves from this nonsense. The Jews should never have been put in Palestine and for me, that will always be the case. Curious to see what the UN can do, if anything but I do hope they can intervene with peacekeepers and aid in Gaza. Reply |
| 104. Author: parsfan Date: Sun 15th Oct 2023. 12:36 Plus ça change... Gerald Kaufman, in 2009. TLDR- "It is time for peace, but real peace, not the solution by conquest which is the Israelis’ real goal but which it is impossible for them to achieve. They are not simply war criminals; they are fools". The full speech: I was brought up as an orthodox Jew and a Zionist. On a shelf in our kitchen, there was a tin box for the Jewish National Fund, into which we put coins to help the pioneers building a Jewish presence in Palestine. I first went to Israel in 1961 and I have been there since more times than I can count. I had family in Israel and have friends in Israel. One of them fought in the wars of 1956, 1967 and 1973 and was wounded in two of them. The tie clip that I am wearing is made from a campaign decoration awarded to him, which he presented to me. I have known most of the Prime Ministers of Israel, starting with the founding Prime Minister David Ben-Gurion. Golda Meir was my friend, as was Yigal Allon, Deputy Prime Minister, who, as a general, won the Negev for Israel in the 1948 war of independence. My parents came to Britain as refugees from Poland. Most of their families were subsequently murdered by the Nazis in the holocaust. My grandmother was ill in bed when the Nazis came to her home town of Staszow. A German soldier shot her dead in her bed. My grandmother did not die to provide cover for Israeli soldiers murdering Palestinian grandmothers in Gaza. The current Israeli Government ruthlessly and cynically exploit the continuing guilt among gentiles over the slaughter of Jews in the holocaust as justification for their murder of Palestinians. The implication is that Jewish lives are precious, but the lives of Palestinians do not count. On Sky News a few days ago, the spokeswoman for the Israeli army, Major Leibovich, was asked about the Israeli killing of, at that time, 800 Palestinians—the total is now 1,000. She replied instantly that “500 of them were militants.” That was the reply of a Nazi. I suppose that the Jews fighting for their lives in the Warsaw ghetto could have been dismissed as militants. The Israeli Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni asserts that her Government will have no dealings with Hamas, because they are terrorists. Tzipi Livni’s father was Eitan Livni, chief operations officer of the terrorist Irgun Zvai Leumi, who organised the blowing-up of the King David hotel in Jerusalem, in which 91 victims were killed, including four Jews.Israel was born out of Jewish terrorism. Jewish terrorists hanged two British sergeants and booby-trapped their corpses. Irgun, together with the terrorist Stern gang, massacred 254 Palestinians in 1948 in the village of Deir Yassin. Today, the current Israeli Government indicate that they would be willing, in circumstances acceptable to them, to negotiate with the Palestinian President Abbas of Fatah. It is too late for that. They could have negotiated with Fatah’s previous leader, Yasser Arafat, who was a friend of mine. Instead, they besieged him in a bunker in Ramallah, where I visited him. Because of the failings of Fatah since Arafat’s death, Hamas won the Palestinian election in 2006. Hamas is a deeply nasty organisation, but it was democratically elected, and it is the only game in town. The boycotting of Hamas, including by our Government, has been a culpable error, from which dreadful consequences have followed. The great Israeli Foreign Minister Abba Eban, with whom I campaigned for peace on many platforms, said: “You make peace by talking to your enemies.” However many Palestinians the Israelis murder in Gaza, they cannot solve this existential problem by military means. Whenever and however the fighting ends, there will still be 1.5 million Palestinians in Gaza and 2.5 million more on the west bank. They are treated like dirt by the Israelis, with hundreds of road blocks and with the ghastly denizens of the illegal Jewish settlements harassing them as well. The time will come, not so long from now, when they will outnumber the Jewish population in Israel. It is time for our Government to make clear to the Israeli Government that their conduct and policies are unacceptable, and to impose a total arms ban on Israel. It is time for peace, but real peace, not the solution by conquest which is the Israelis’ real goal but which it is impossible for them to achieve. They are not simply war criminals; they are fools. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The universe is ruled by chance and indifference  Reply |
| 105. Author: Andrew283 Date: Sun 15th Oct 2023. 13:32 Starmer now doubling down on his little love in with Israel. Palestinian lives are irrelevant. The guy is vile Reply |
| 106. Author: Raymie the Legend Date: Sun 15th Oct 2023. 15:44 Interesting and informative posts from HJ and parsfan. Sickening to see the support Israel are getting from the west  It`s bloody tough being a legend Ron Atkinson - 1983 Reply |
| 107. Author: GG Riva Date: Sun 15th Oct 2023. 19:48 Raymie the Legend, Sun 15 Oct 15:44 There has been evil and wrongdoing on both sides. The actions of Hamas are horrendous as has been the retaliation by Israel. There can never be peace between the two as long as they remain hell bent on killing every last enemy fighter. The West should be urging both sides to find a peaceful solution instead of making out that Israel are the good guys. I`ve just watched a news clip of a Gaza City hospital and an interview with doctors who are looking after people who can`t be moved, including premature babies. One said that if Israeli soldiers are going to kill them, it might as well be in the hospital. Horrendous prospect.  Not your average Sunday League player. Reply |
| 108. Author: donj Date: Mon 16th Oct 2023. 20:44 Defensive or evil.Making sure no life saving supplies can get to the Palestinian population. Trucks carrying badly needed supplies have waited for days at Egypt’s border crossing with Gaza but repeated Israeli strikes and a diplomatic stalemate with Cairo have meant they have been unable to enter. An Israeli airstrike hit the border crossing again on Monday evening, a BBC journalist in Gaza reported, the fourth time the area has been bombed since the war began. Reply |
| 109. Author: Dave_1885 Date: Tue 17th Oct 2023. 19:32 Hundreds now dead in a strike on a Palestinian hospital…..lets see who condemns this as a war crime and who doesnt….. Post Edited (Tue 17 Oct 20:12) Reply |
| 110. Author: Buspasspar Date: Tue 17th Oct 2023. 19:56 This has to be stopped now .. genocide happening for all to see .. Human suffering .. Rishi sickened by anti semitism remarks .. Get a grip .. UK .. USA .. UN .. step in NOW and stop Israel fulfilling their objective We are forever shaped by the Children we once were Reply |
| 111. Author: parsfan Date: Tue 17th Oct 2023. 21:44 Now saying 5-800 and the Israelis are blaming Islamic Jihad...despite having tweeted earlier that they did it. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The universe is ruled by chance and indifference Post Edited (Tue 17 Oct 22:45) Reply |
| 112. Author: Andrew283 Date: Wed 18th Oct 2023. 01:49 Mainz 05 have just sacked El Ghazi for posting a message "From the River to the Sea, Palestine will be free". The western bias in this is out of control Reply |
| 113. Author: veteraneastender Date: Wed 18th Oct 2023. 09:52 IDF spokesman claiming (in detail) that the hospital explosion was a Hamas missile which failed to launch and misfired. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zulx1ujtou Reply |
| 114. Author: da_no_1 Date: Wed 18th Oct 2023. 10:17 When missiles are being fired at will in all directions I suppose its inevitable one will go astray. I say this with absolutely no knowledge or back up information whatsoever "Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark" Post Edited (Wed 18 Oct 10:17) Reply |
| 115. Author: veteraneastender Date: Wed 18th Oct 2023. 10:30 The IDF spokesman claimed that there had been multiple rocked malfunctions which had caused misfires within Gaza territory - and showed a map. Who knows - they say the first casualty of war is the truth. Reply |
| 116. Author: GG Riva Date: Wed 18th Oct 2023. 10:45 veteraneastender, Wed 18 Oct 09:52 I`d imagine some of our younger posters will take this as gospel - probably those who are 7 or under, Not your average Sunday League player. Reply |
| 117. Author: Bandy Date: Wed 18th Oct 2023. 11:12 I`m older than 7 and, personally, I think the chances of the IDF deliberately bombing a hospital are vanishingly small. A misfire from a Palestinian rocket does feel more plausible. Reply |
| 118. Author: Dave_1885 Date: Wed 18th Oct 2023. 11:56 Palestinian death toll now stands at treble the toll from the Hamas attack, with reports of over 14,000 injured, along with the 1.1 million displaced citizens. At what point does this no longer become “self defence” and a “reasonable response”? It looks like the major players are still sticking to their guns behind Israel. The IDF also claimed there were no air operations at that time above Gaza, but somehow a drone collected footage… Reply |
| 119. Author: GG Riva Date: Wed 18th Oct 2023. 12:37 Bandy, Wed 18 Oct 11:12 Well, you may be right, Bandy, but I find it equally hard to swallow that Hamas would deliberately bomb their own hospital. There`s no doubt there are some extremely fanatical elements in that organisation, but surely they wouldn`t stoop so low. If it was an accident, it could have been either side. Not your average Sunday League player. Reply |
| 120. Author: Bandy Date: Wed 18th Oct 2023. 14:04 I don`t know much of Hamas, so what I`m saying is conjecture. I don`t think they intentionally bombed the hospital, that`s too low for them, but an accident, yeah, I believe that. I also think it`s possible that they bombed the `safe` routes out of Northern Gaza, as they need people to stay in the North as human shields. I don`t know that either of those happened, but they are both plausible. As the saying goes - the first causality of war is truth. Never has that been truer than today. I just don`t know who to believe anymore. Fake news has ruined us. Reply |
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