| Topic: Finally, the terrible truth... |
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| 21. Author: OzPar Date: Sat 2nd Aug 2025. 13:18 The truth has been there to see on social media, supplied by incredibly brave Palestinian journalists. However close to 200 are dead now and much of what we see on social media today is from citizens on their phones, medical workers, etc. but it is authentic and often harrowing. Certainly more trustworthy than anything that has gone through a filter in Tel Aviv. Reply |
| 22. Author: Dave_1885 Date: Sat 2nd Aug 2025. 14:07 jake89, Sat 2 Aug 12:37 Come on Jake, I dont know if you are being deliberately coy or not, but everyone knows what is happening in Gaza. Look at the BBC News site, where no BBC journalists are allowed into the country, and even they say there is mass starvation and a flattening of the entirety of Gaza ongoing. I Id rather believe 100 aid agencies on the ground than one army thats hellbent on the destruction of Palestine. Reply |
| 23. Author: red-star-par Date: Sat 2nd Aug 2025. 19:20 We have seen how a country has been raised to the ground, cities turned into rubble. The fact Israel wouldn`t let Jeremy Bowen look out the window onto the destruction they have caused is telling. They have told people to leave cities and they have flattened them. They have then kettled them into concentration camps and murdered them. They have starved them, then lured the emaciated people with food to shoot them for fun. Their snipers have purposefully shot teenage boys in the genitals for fun. Their Armed Forces have surrounded terrified young girls and women and gang raped them. The people back in Israel rejoice in this depravity. Their politicians say on air that they can`t sleep at night until they see apartment blocks destroyed. They think they are the chosen ones, and that their prey are worth less than dogs. The governments of the world have turned a blind eye, enabled them to commit these atrocities, funded them, sold them arms. It seems though, the tide is turning. The people see what they are like. Their true face is going to have to be paid for in kind. They, and those around the world who support them, deserve what is coming to them Reply |
| 24. Author: jake89 Date: Sat 2nd Aug 2025. 20:02 Dave_1885, Sat 2 Aug 14:07 Very much playing devil`s advocate. As I`ve said before in this thread we won`t find out the truth until it`s too late if at all. What might look like one thing on camera could be something completely different. The depressing thing is regardless of who has done what, innocent lives have been lost. Reply |
| 25. Author: hurricane_jimmy Date: Sun 3rd Aug 2025. 02:41 Oz, I genuinely burst out laughing at the claim that I`m "being manipulated by the UK media". For the record, I read the majority of my news in Swedish, partly to keep my vocab up and mainly because it is quite unbiased considering Sweden has been neutral for about 200 years until very recently. And I`m pretty sure there are no British outlets publishing in Swedish. Anything in English tends to come from Germany, Japan, Taiwan and sometimes Singapore. So yeah, try again... Funnily enough, I`m on the same side as you with Gaza, but I certainly won`t excuse terrorism, be it from Hamas or the Zionists. Or indeed the Y`all Qaeda MAGA lot in the US. I really don`t understand the infatuation you have with Putin and the CCP. You are either blissfully unaware of or willfully ignoring the systematic corruption in these states. Of course though, you`ll claim "Corruption is everywhere" which isn`t wrong but little other than a tacit deflection. Pretty much everything you have posted about Ukraine is a Kremlin talking point that can be found with relative ease on government-linked Telegram channels. China, you are simply clueless. My first job in HK was with a company where, as it turned out, the company didn`t have the proper licensing and was caught lying to the authorities about said licensing. Strangely, the boss was a former HK Police inspector and, funnily enough, the company are still operating despite the two year time lapse. The only way that happens in HK is with a back-hander and through my current job, you see that these sorts of activities are rife in the Mainland. The new company I`m with deals with companies that are moving out of China which is happening at considerable pace, particularly due to the country being on the cusp of a demographic crisis and in the middle of an economic slowdown. Funnily enough, Chinese media outlets are rather reluctant to talk about this - why do you think that might be? Simply put, China is the land of shortcuts and facades, pure and simple. And sorry, but I do know more about China than you. And yes, I studied Russia and China fairly in depth through different courses I did in Sweden with Lund University, with a number of the teachers being advisors to the Swedish Government. Are the Swedish Universities running a brainwashing conspiracy now that everyone bar you is blissfully unaware of? Honestly, you are getting more ridiculous with every post. And the playground name-calling does you no favours. Reply |
| 26. Author: DunfyDave Date: Sun 3rd Aug 2025. 10:04 Oz, there are massive demonstrations being held in many UK cities on regular occurrences against the brutality and heavy-handed Israel offensive against Gaza. I would go as far to say that most British people are utterly shocked and disgusted at the level of brutality. The British leadership mis-read this sentiment towards Gaza and found themselves mis-aligned with the public mood but things do seem to be albeit slowly changing on that front. The people on this island are NOT naive to what is going on. DunfyDave Reply |
| 27. Author: OzPar Date: Mon 4th Aug 2025. 00:58 DunfyDave, I have never suggested that Brits are ignorant of the brutality of Gaza. Many British voices have been raised against it on social media. What I have consistently said is that the government and media have largely been evasive in their coverage of these events. There was a brief moment of openness when George Galloway won that by-election and started to ask tough questions in the Commons. But, outside that, the Labour Government (and the Tory opposition) has been disgraceful in their unswerving support of Israel. As for the media, it has been appalling. Yes, I agree that there has been more accurate coverage lately. Still, only very recently, and with extraordinary unity, they have all come out together to attack what`s going on in Gaza—as if someone somewhere has turned a tap on, or withdrawn a "D" Notice. The behaviour of the BBC has been horrendous. Once upon a time, it was the watchword in journalism. Now it is a lesson in what not to do. Recently, we discovered that a very senior figure in BBC News was actively toning down or deleting negative references to Israel. As if we couldn`t tell! Then we had that documentary on Gaza, commissioned by the BBC, but withdrawn from broadcast at the last moment. Meanwhile, month after month on social media, the first-hand evidence of the atrocities was being shown in all its horror, totally contradicting the official line from the government and media. That`s the point I was trying to make. If I failed to do so, I apologise. Reply |
| 28. Author: DunfyDave Date: Mon 4th Aug 2025. 10:43 No need to apologise Oz and thank you for clarifying your position. In all honesty, I agree with you. I would hasten to add though that the mood does appear to be changing in the UK, albeit slowly. Our political elite do seem to be drawing some attention from the mass protests of the British public whom are no fools to the attrocities occurring in Gaza. Why our politicians took so long 🤷♂️ DunfyDave Reply |
| 29. Author: Tenruh Date: Tue 5th Aug 2025. 07:02 hurricane_jimmy, Sun 3 Aug 02:41 Where are the companies that are moving out of China moving to? The monetary system that China,India,Brazil etc have, do you think that`ll be a success? Reply |
| 30. Author: hurricane_jimmy Date: Wed 6th Aug 2025. 01:06 Tenruh, a lot of the manufacturing in China is moving to India, Indonesia and Vietnam because of cheaper labour and freer markets. Singapore is taking up a lot of the financial and services stuff but both seem to be jostling for the titles of "Asia`s finance hub". Places like Philippines and Thailand should be doing better on honesty and taking advantage of the situation but they`ve struggled with development for a good while because of corruption and just government bodies not being that reliable. Especially the former when you consider that English is widely spoken. The simple fact is that the Chinese economy is in pretty bad shape at the moment, particularly because of the collapse of the real estate bubble, growing youth unemployment and the demographic issues arising from the one child policy and an ageing population. And that`s even with the doctored figures that are put out there. Hong Kong has basically declined since the British left, mainly due to Chinese encroachment although it wasn`t helped by the Asian and then the global financial crash. There are numerous incidents of workers burning down factories etc because their employers haven`t paid them for months, often because they can`t since the economy is in such a bad way. Very often these can be found on Chinese social media sites like Douyin and the authorities attempt to remove them but photos and videos are often saved by Taiwanese and others. You see similar things with kids smashing up schools because of teachers covering up abuse of students etc and the same with real estate offices because people have lost their money because of the pre-buy schemes that have been used for donkeys. Youth unemployment is a huge problem and there are people with master degrees and higher running around working as the "yellow bike delivery guys", which you see everywhere in the major cities. Interestingly there are a lot of Chinese scam and gambling companies operating in places like Cambodia and Laos too which are fairly well-documented but these are left alone, likely due to affiliations with party officials. If you ever go to Macau then you`re not allowed to photograph or film inside the casinos, very likely for that same reason as gambling is illegal in Mainland China. But aye, long story short, China tries to project itself one way but the reality is far different. Reply |
| 31. Author: DBP Date: Wed 6th Aug 2025. 20:22 India and even China is going the same was as Japan for example (who are very expensive now). They started off as the cheap option, middle classes started to demand more and then the places we outsourced to, in turn outsource to Philippines, Indonesia etc Post Edited (Wed 06 Aug 20:22) Reply |
| 32. Author: OzPar Date: Sat 9th Aug 2025. 04:02 Typhoon Jimmy said, "China, you are simply clueless. My first job in HK was with a company where, as it turned out, the company didn`t have the proper licensing and was caught lying to the authorities about said licensing... companies that are moving out of China which is happening at considerable pace, particularly due to the country being on the cusp of a demographic crisis and in the middle of an economic slowdown. Funnily enough, Chinese media outlets are rather reluctant to talk about this - why do you think that might be? Simply put, China is the land of shortcuts and facades, pure and simple. And sorry, but I do know more about China than you." === I don`t dismiss that your experiences were real, but they remain your experiences, not the sum total of an entire country. China, like any nation, has its share of problems and its share of successes. Broad generalisations risk saying more about you than the place itself. I`m clueless? Perhaps. But, I have travelled to several parts of China over an extended period. I first visited Shanghai in 1983 and last visited it in 2017. I have therefore had the opportunity to witness firsthand the remarkable changes and advances that have occurred there. I don`t doubt that there is corruption. But, heck, there`s corruption in Britain, in Australia! My daughter lived in Hong Kong for seven years, where she worked as a corporate lawyer. Part of her job was to travel with clients to cities like Dongguan and Guangzhou to inspect manufacturers for counterfeit products. There is no denying that it has been a major problem for many years. My son is an engineer involved in advanced cell therapy manufacturing. He is currently in Beijing. As you say, there may well be manufacturers moving out of China. I would suggest that they are low-end manufacturers, where cost, not quality, is the key factor. However, they are being rapidly replaced by high-end manufacturers due to China`s excellent education system and its progressive policies on new technology. In high-end manufacturing, China is far and away the most advanced in the world. Perhaps, as a counter to the dystopian picture you draw of China, I should quote from a text I received from my son this morning from Beijing:- "I imagine it was a manic time while they were expanding so rapidly in the 1990s and 2000s, but they seem to have dialled it to the most tranquil living. Silent streets, with all the convenience of the Western world and then some - peaceful is an accurate description. If you want to see what life could be like in 30 years, it`s worth a trip here. Cheap to live too. Public transportation is great, taxis are affordable, and food is reasonably priced. It is the kind of place where you can wing it and feel completely comfortable that you`ll get yourself home safe at the end of the day." Post Edited (Sat 09 Aug 04:07) Reply |