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Topic: IPPR Scotland — Rebuilding Scotland`s “New Politics”: a constructive parliament to build trust in Scottish politic
21. Author:  Dave_1885        
Date: Thu 10th Sep 2026. 22:16

jake89, Thu 10 Sep 22:00

Dave_1885, Thu 10 Sept 21:45

Tenruh, Thu 10 Sep 21:28

wee eck, Thu 10 Sept 19:46

OK, for sake of argument, let`s accept the Scottish government is incompetent. Why then have they been in power for 19 years?


Because the unionist vote is split 4 ways


But the SNP as a party still get more votes than the other parties…..so surely if they were that bad, people just wouldn’t the for them? You know, like when the Tories were ousted 2 years ago?


It doesn`t. It gets more votes than each individually but not all added up.


Thats the point I was getting at……surely the people that vote for them would either not vote for them, or change their vote, if they were that bad?

I mean, I nearly didn’t vote for them this year, but felt there was still just enough to make that vote. But then, others are surely less delusional than me?

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22. Author:  LochgellyAlbert        
Date: Fri 11th Sep 2026. 00:38

Is there any other country in the world governed by another country?

Apart from Trump`s acquisitions?

Won't make any difference though, the Israelis will fudge the figures!

Post Edited (Fri 11 Sep 00:44)

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23. Author:  Tenruh        
Date: Fri 11th Sep 2026. 06:42

Dave_1885, Thu 10 Sept 22:16

jake89, Thu 10 Sep 22:00

Dave_1885, Thu 10 Sept 21:45

Tenruh, Thu 10 Sep 21:28

wee eck, Thu 10 Sept 19:46

OK, for sake of argument, let`s accept the Scottish government is incompetent. Why then have they been in power for 19 years?


Because the unionist vote is split 4 ways


But the SNP as a party still get more votes than the other parties…..so surely if they were that bad, people just wouldn’t the for them? You know, like when the Tories were ousted 2 years ago?


It doesn`t. It gets more votes than each individually but not all added up.


Thats the point I was getting at……surely the people that vote for them would either not vote for them, or change their vote, if they were that bad?

I mean, I nearly didn’t vote for them this year, but felt there was still just enough to make that vote. But then, others are surely less delusional than me?


Why the nearly didn`t? What other voting option was open to you ?

On another issue re the voting system, the SNP had Marie Todd standing in her constituency and on the list vote, she actually lost her constituency seat but being top of the list for the Highlands she managed to get re-elected and get to the World Cup off the back of that.
Seriously though, if the constituency rejects you surely it`s a travesty still getting elected?
Lastly she`s now in the Cabinet earning in excess of £110k a year....well rewarded for failure.

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24. Author:  Dave_1885        
Date: Fri 11th Sep 2026. 07:01

The other option really was not voting, because there are no other viable options that Id back 🤷🏻‍♂️ but I felt I had to vote to have a say really. Maybe that is how they remain in power because despite their flaws, others feel compelled to vote for them as theres no other viable parties up here.

The list is a total farce. Not one Reform MSP won a constituency vote, and yet 17 sit in Parliament - including some who came THIRD in their area vote! It’s a total con.

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25. Author:  Indiapar1        
Date: Fri 11th Sep 2026. 08:37

I think the performance of the SNP is a consideration in terms of future voting. The other important factor is the stated aim for independence. For me the important consideration is "what will independence actually look like". Brexit perhaps is an example of the philosophy of an "independent UK". There are a number of parallels in ideas there. There have been pro`s and con`s of Brexot based on different perspectives. The other consideration is the external security threats from a changing world.

There is an interesting implication for Scotland and Scottish independence in terms of energy. For example, energy would be one of the most inational-security functions an independent Scotland would have to establish. This includes generation adequacy, Black Start/restoration, grid operation, strategic fuel stocks, North Sea infrastructure, interconnectors with England and Europe, cyber protection and emergency planning would all become sovereign-security considerations. That is a substantially bigger issue than simply asking whether Scotland produces more electricity than it consumes.

For me this is an example of the real debate we should be having. Patriotism is important but pragmatism is also a consideration.

G Wardrope

Post Edited (Fri 11 Sep 09:03)

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26. Author:  wee eck        
Date: Fri 11th Sep 2026. 09:14

Would there have not been similar concerns when the constituent nations of the USSR, Yugoslavia or Czechoslovakia went their separate ways? Why should any of these issues be seen as insuperable just because they would result from the break-up of the UK?

Nations governing themselves is normal. Four nations being recognised internationally as one is not. I`ve never understood why the citizens of a country would willingly cede its governance to a neighbour, especially a much bigger one which would could outvote it on matters where a mutual interest might not exist. At present the UK speaks up for the sovereignty of places like Palestine, Ukraine and Greenland but is strangely reticent when it comes to the sovereignty of its own constituent nations.

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27. Author:  NMCmassive        
Date: Fri 11th Sep 2026. 10:05

What makes you think they’ve been competent?

COYP

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28. Author:  Indiapar1        
Date: Fri 11th Sep 2026. 10:28

Wee Eck - I think that many of these countries being part of the former Soviet Union would have attracted substantial funding from the EU for example. Ths is particularly so given their geographical location I would assume. Also, these were very institutionalised societies with perhaps some of the systems in place to transition. Many of these systems would not be IT driven in those days.

There would be substantial challenges for sure, and I would agree that they are not insurmountable. My question would be: what would be the implementation strategy, timetable and at what cost. I believe the conservative estimate to transition would be anywhere between 6 and 10 years.

My caveat would be if we struggled to deliver a few island ferries, how would we fair with a significantly larger and riskier project.

It may not impact me at my age, but the cost and implications would fall to the next and future generations should we get it wrong.

I take neither side, but would want to understand the detail because if anything we owe that to future generations.

G Wardrope

Post Edited (Fri 11 Sep 10:40)

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29. Author:  wee eck        
Date: Fri 11th Sep 2026. 10:47

You won`t get any detail unless a referendum is agreed otherwise the nationalists will be accused of wasting time and money on trrelevant issues whilse people are struggling with the real issues of modern life. That won`t stop the unionists saying there are lots of unanswered questions though.



Post Edited (Fri 11 Sep 12:48)

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30. Author:  NMCmassive        
Date: Fri 11th Sep 2026. 17:37

The unanswered question from the last referendum was the economy and it’s still unanswered.

COYP

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31. Author:  NMCmassive        
Date: Fri 11th Sep 2026. 17:47

wee eck, Fri 11 Sep 09:14

Would there have not been similar concerns when the constituent nations of the USSR, Yugoslavia or Czechoslovakia went their separate ways? Why should any of these issues be seen as insuperable just because they would result from the break-up of the UK?

Nations governing themselves is normal. Four nations being recognised internationally as one is not. I`ve never understood why the citizens of a country would willingly cede its governance to a neighbour, especially a much bigger one which would could outvote it on matters where a mutual interest might not exist. At present the UK speaks up for the sovereignty of places like Palestine, Ukraine and Greenland but is strangely reticent when it comes to the sovereignty of its own constituent nations.


The USSR was basically bankrupt. It communist regime that forced constituent nations into servitude.

You honestly can’t compare that to the UK and if you do, you’re ignorant or biased.

Czechoslovakia was reinvaded (for want of a better way to put it) for having the gaul of considering leaving the USSR and communism in 1968. Tanks in street type of invasion.

We were given a referendum.

COYP

Post Edited (Fri 11 Sep 17:48)

Reply
32. Author:  Indiapar1        
Date: Mon 14th Sep 2026. 09:42

NMCmassive, Fri 11 Sept 17:37

The unanswered question from the last referendum was the economy and it’s still unanswered.


I believe the fiscal deficit in Scotland is approximately 11% of GDP compared to 5% in the rest of the UK. I think you would have to set up separate institutions and governance bodies for tax collection, defence, foreign service, intelligence etc.

Within an environment of a declining population in Scotland, my understanding is that the SNP want a more liberal immigration policy. I think if thats the case its an important issue. There is a dichotomy here, in that what does Scottish Independence look like and what would be the cultural impact on higher levels of migration. There are also other considerations such as AI and how will that impact the job market and the types of jobs available. AI can potentially replace a number of jobs. This could be the cusp of a paradigm shift in the working environment.

G Wardrope

Post Edited (Mon 14 Sep 10:05)

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33. Author:  jake89        
Date: Mon 14th Sep 2026. 10:13

Indiapar1, Mon 14 Sept 09:42

NMCmassive, Fri 11 Sept 17:37

The unanswered question from the last referendum was the economy and it’s still unanswered.


I believe the fiscal deficit in Scotland is approximately 11% of GDP compared to 5% in the rest of the UK. I think you would have to set up separate institutions and governance bodies for tax collection, defence, foreign service, intelligence etc.

Within an environment of a declining population in Scotland, my understanding is that the SNP want a more liberal immigration policy. I think if thats the case its an important issue. There is a dichotomy here, in that what does Scottish Independence look like and what would be the cultural impact on higher levels of migration. There are also other considerations such as AI and how will that impact the job market and the types of jobs available. AI can potentially replace a number of jobs. This could be the cusp of a paradigm shift in the working environment.


What the SNP want in an independent Scotland is irrelevant.

I`d imagine the cost of things like defence etc would be lower given we in Scotland currently pay to have a load of civil service jobs in England and Wales who "work" on our behalf but add nothing to our economy.

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34. Author:  wee eck        
Date: Mon 14th Sep 2026. 10:50

As Scotland isn`t in control of its own fiscal policy while it is part of the UK how can you measure its `fiscal deficit` in a way that would reflect the situation if it were an independent country?



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35. Author:  Dave_1885        
Date: Mon 14th Sep 2026. 11:26

Watching Farage etc going mental about then3 devolved parliament’s meeting and signing this agreement today is hilarious.

Folk calling out Swinney for backing the IRAs political arm etc is just great viewing

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36. Author:  NMCmassive        
Date: Mon 14th Sep 2026. 11:29

wee eck, Mon 14 Sep 10:50

As Scotland isn`t in control of its own fiscal policy while it is part of the UK how can you measure its `fiscal deficit` in a way that would reflect the situation if it were an independent country?


It would only be the 5th time that questions been answered

COYP

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37. Author:  wee eck        
Date: Mon 14th Sep 2026. 11:54

I must have missed all five.



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38. Author:  Indiapar1        
Date: Mon 14th Sep 2026. 13:34

I don`t really have a strong position either way at the end of the day. My only real view is that the last referendum was presented as a generational one. For me that means another one in 2035 if thats what the majority of people in Scotland want. Referendums every 10 years creates too much uncertainty I think. The two scenarios would be - independence voted for, remain part of the UK. So ten years after that would there be another vote to rejoin the UK if independence was the outcome if, hypothetically speaking, the perceived benefits of independence did not materialise.

G Wardrope

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39. Author:  jake89        
Date: Mon 14th Sep 2026. 15:23

Indiapar1, Mon 14 Sept 13:34

I don`t really have a strong position either way at the end of the day. My only real view is that the last referendum was presented as a generational one. For me that means another one in 2035 if thats what the majority of people in Scotland want. Referendums every 10 years creates too much uncertainty I think. The two scenarios would be - independence voted for, remain part of the UK. So ten years after that would there be another vote to rejoin the UK if independence was the outcome if, hypothetically speaking, the perceived benefits of independence did not materialise.


We left the EU on the basis of a marginal ADVISORY vote. If we need certainty then it surely needs to be a 60+% vote rather than 50.1%? Saying that, the vote result will be whatever the media and Israel decide it`s to be.

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40. Author:  Indiapar1        
Date: Mon 14th Sep 2026. 15:54

I agree Jake89. It needs to be a bigger margin to be sustainable. I think my only real concern is that the independence vote has created division in one form or another and there is victory on neither side.

In terms of the Brexit vote, there is the potential to go around in circles as rejoining or being reintegrated back into Europe seems to be back on the agenda.

G Wardrope

Post Edited (Mon 14 Sep 15:59)

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