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| 41. Author: jake89 Date: Fri 5th Jul 2024. 18:50 Dave_1885, Fri 5 Jul 17:55 But equally 4 million people voted Reform and got a handful of seats whilst the same number got Lib Dems 70+ so there`s a massive flaw in FPTP. Whilst I`m pleased we don`t have any of those Reform nutters, I imagine this might fire them up for the next election. What will happen to Alba now? No MPs and like no MSPs in 18 months. What will they do? It would be good to see them become what Alex Salmond hoped they would be but the likelihood is they`d do what Reform have done to the Tories and split their vote. Reply |
| 42. Author: Dave_1885 Date: Fri 5th Jul 2024. 18:59 jake89, Fri 5 Jul 18:50 But again, if your votes had outnumbered any party in your constituency, and got lumped with someone else that didn’t get the votes but got the seat because Joe Bloggs in Swansea voted for them, how is that fair? Alba are finished now I think, not even getting close to a seat anywhere Reply |
| 43. Author: AdamAntsParsStripe Date: Fri 5th Jul 2024. 20:11 jake89, Fri 5 Jul 18:50 It’s not a massive flaw at all. It’s all about percentages of constituency votes and it’s fair. Imagine Reform got 1 million votes in London (population 6.5 million) Do they deserve then 20 seats when people are voting in areas they live in have say 15000 people? Zwei Pints Bier und ein Päckchen Chips bitte  Reply |
| 44. Author: jake89 Date: Fri 5th Jul 2024. 23:00 We can`t do it, but it would be interesting to see how STV would work at English elections. It`s obviously been odd in Scotland of late as STV should prevent single parties being in power but that hasn`t been the case at the past two elections (not counting the Greens as a coalition). The next election will likely see Labour as the main party getting into bed with the Lib Dems rather than SNP. Thoroughly depressing given the vile characters in the Scottish Lib Dems. Reply |
| 45. Author: McCaig`s Tower Date: Fri 5th Jul 2024. 23:34 Holyrood doesn`t use STV, it uses the AMS. Reply |
| 46. Author: Andrew283 Date: Fri 5th Jul 2024. 23:38 McCaig`s Tower, Fri 5 Jul 23:34 Either way, it`s a far superior system imo Reply |
| 47. Author: Dave_1885 Date: Sat 6th Jul 2024. 04:21 Andrew283, Fri 5 Jul 23:38 Is it though? Holyrood also allows list candidates to be given seats that they haven’t won….. Reply |
| 48. Author: Wotsit Date: Sat 6th Jul 2024. 06:57 Many forms of PR allow multiple members to represent an area, giving each area better representation for the variety of views held by its constituents. Under FPTP most constituencies can be won with around 30% of the vote, that`s 70% of the voters whose views are unrepresented. The enemy travels by private jet, not by dinghy. Post Edited (Sat 06 Jul 06:58) Reply |
| 49. Author: Parboiled Date: Sat 6th Jul 2024. 08:07 All those years when SNP benches at Westminster heaved with MPs yet every constituency had a majority of anti Indy votes...where was all the enthusiasm for PR then! Reply |
| 50. Author: Bletchley_Par Date: Sat 6th Jul 2024. 08:30 Topic Originator: Parboiled To be fair to the SNP and Elsie McSelfie, they have always been in favour of PR even when they benefited from FPTP. The SNP would vote to introduce proportional representation for Westminster elections, Nicola Surgeon has confirmed. The Scottish First Minister said that she supported electoral reform despite her party being set to do very well out of the current system. “I support PR in principle, it’s in our manifesto, and the SNP would vote for it.” Successive polls have shown the SNP set to secure over 50% of the vote in Scotland but some projections have seen the party set to take 100% of the country’s seats because of Westminster’s First Past the Post voting system. Under a proportional system the SNP would likely see their number of MPs cut in half and more accurately reflect the votes cast north of the border. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/the-snp-would-vote-to-introduce-proportional-representation-at-westminster-nicola-sturgeon-confirms-10223302.html  Reply |
| 51. Author: McCaig`s Tower Date: Sun 7th Jul 2024. 22:13 Going back to the original post, what happens at a count? Ballot-boxes are delivered. Votes are “verified”. I assume this means that you check to see that the number of ballot-papers that come out of the boxes equals the number that go in. Ballot papers are sorted into piles by each sorter – one for each candidate. Each pile is bundled up into 25s, and then 500s? The number for each candidate is totalled. Spoilt papers are adjudicated – are they valid votes, or not and either allocated to a candidate, or separately totalled. It is checked that the total number of votes (including spoilt papers) matches the number verified. Candidates are told, the declaration is made How accurate do the verification and checking procedures have to be? Is the verification done box by box? Is it up to the Returning Officer’s discretion? It makes little sense to worry about a couple of missing votes if it makes no practical difference to anyone, but if it’s a few hundred then it might make a difference to the result, or to someone saving their deposit. So presumably the time-taken is a function of: The size of the constituency The turn-out The number of counters The ability and freshness of the counters The number of candidates The closeness or otherwise of the contest. I remember it used to be the case that the Western Isles (as of old) was a “next afternoon” declaration as it was hard to get votes from the islands to Stornoway, then one year everyone was surprised when it was one of the first seats to declare as they had used helicopters to fly in the boxes and they only had 15,000 or so votes to count. It used to puzzle me why the Edinburgh seats were so slow to declare, as it seemed that the capital has reasonable transport infrastructure and it shouldn’t take long to get the boxes to Ingliston. Reply |
| 52. Author: Socks Date: Mon 8th Jul 2024. 18:25 I`m not sure of the detail as to what happens at the count as I`ve never been there. However, I`ve worked in a polling station the last few times and at the training session they usually mention how something going wrong in polling stations or errors in ballot paper accounts can lead to long delays at the count. So, I don`t think it`s the counting itself that is the issue, but more what you`ve listed as verification when boxes arrive. All kinds of annoying things can happen, and there are always errors and issues. Despite telling people which box to put their marked paper into, someone always wanders over to the wrong box. I had one instance this time where we didn`t notice until it was too late and it actually went in the wrong box, so we had a discrepancy. It generally happens in busy spells when you can`t keep an eye on everything going on. Sometimes the number list gets out of sync - it`s never happened to me as I`m absolutely paranoid about it, but it does happen. And if it does, it needs some working out what`s happened and where it might have gone out. And sometimes the ballot paper account is not completed correctly at the end of the day. Again, it takes staff at the count time to work out what has actually gone on, given that the person who completed the paperwork is not available. I`m only guessing here, but I assume that any incorrect ballot accounts do need a thorough check so that everyone can be satisfied that it`s a simple error at the end of a long day when you feel rushed to get it completed, rather than any attempt at fraud. I really don`t know why we persist with counting through the night. It would make more sense to start fresh the next day with people who are awake at their normal time. I think this was recommended by a review a few years ago, but parties preferred to have the results quickly so it never happened. I don`t think we lost anything in 2021 when counting was done over 2 days. Reply |
| 53. Author: OzPar Date: Tue 9th Jul 2024. 00:47 Presumably, closing the counting booths for the night would trigger the conspiracy theorists and open up many avenues to challenge the vote? Reply |
| 54. Author: Parboiled Date: Tue 9th Jul 2024. 10:35 Anyone with half a brain knows the 2014 Indy ref vote was rigged... Reply |
| 55. Author: jake89 Date: Tue 9th Jul 2024. 11:59 It was rigged by the media, not by those involved in running the ballot stations and counting the votes. I can tell you that for sure. I`m more interested in these mysterious Reform candidates who don`t seem to exist. I queried the one for Dunfermline and it appears this is the case elsewhere in Scotland too. In some cases it appears the person may not exist at all, others they are people based down south and others they appear to be AI! Reply |
| 56. Author: red-star-par Date: Tue 9th Jul 2024. 13:15 I`ve not heard the full story behind this myself, but this sounds very worrying from the snippets I have heard. Surely all candidates put up by all parties are independently verified to ensure they actually exist Reply |
| 57. Author: Luxembourg Par Date: Tue 9th Jul 2024. 13:56 jake89, Tue 9 Jul 11:59 AI? Surely you mean AS?  Reply |
| 58. Author: jake89 Date: Tue 9th Jul 2024. 14:10 Little from column A, little from column B. Reply |
| 59. Author: Dave_1885 Date: Tue 9th Jul 2024. 14:11 jake89, Tue 9 Jul 11:59 If that candidate does turn out to be an Ai generated random then Reform could be in a world of trouble Reply |
| 60. Author: Luxembourg Par Date: Tue 9th Jul 2024. 20:21 Dave_1885, Tue 9 Jul 14:11 Artificial, maybe. I was more querying the ‘Intelligence’ part of a Reform candidate. Artificial Stupidity might be closer Reply |
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