Forum List | Politics Forum
Start Previous [ 1 ] -- 2 -- 3 -- Next End| Topic: Trump v Zelenskyy |
|---|
| 1. Author: DunfyDave Date: Sat 1st Mar 2025. 08:40 Whilst showing great diplomacy, courtesy and sometimes complimenting Vladimir Putin, the US president extended nothing but insults to the Ukrainian president. The fears of the potential humiliation of the French and British leaders visit to the White House proved to be unfounded but they must surely now be in the firing line as hard decisions now need to be made on our "Special Relationship". If Putin introduced the world to a possible WW3 then Trump has surely promoted this and brought us all much closer to that scary reality by distancing himself from NATO and hiding behind his vast ocean. His pursuit to steal a deal on rare earth minerals whilst offering zero in return but insisting that Europe police and secure his rights can only be described as a joke. Our UK, EU and NATO leaders have some very hard decisions to make and it could possibly put us all in the cross-hairs. DunfyDave Post Edited (Sat 01 Mar 08:42) Reply |
| 2. Author: Dave_1885 Date: Sat 1st Mar 2025. 08:52 Starmer looking like a right tw@t now with that “olive branch” of a second state visit he gave Trump the day before. Been played like a fiddle. Only way this war should end is a with a full retreat of Russian forces and restoring Ukraine to how it should be. Of course, Messers Putin and Trump will not allow this as the minerals they seek are deep below Ukraine. Fun times ahead……. Reply |
| 3. Author: Buspasspar Date: Sat 1st Mar 2025. 09:16 Good Post D D There is only one guy leading us into a ww3 and its not Zelenskyy We are forever shaped by the Children we once were Reply |
| 4. Author: PARrot Date: Sat 1st Mar 2025. 14:55 Dave_1885, Sat 1 Mar 08:52 You are not getting Starmers roll in this. Someone has to try to keep the lava in the volcano until the folk on the mountainside are fully prepared to respond to the eruption. Starmer did what diplomats have to do. We live in very treacherous times, and we know pandering to the monster`s ego keeps it calm.  Reply |
| 5. Author: DunfyDave Date: Sat 1st Mar 2025. 15:11 Totally correct Parrot. Sending Macron and Starmer was a tactic to try and set the stage for Zelenskyy`s visit. To massage his ego. To try and sway him to offer some sort of reassurance to Ukraine in return for the mineral rights. I have now resigned myself that last night`s bullying tactics was ultimately inevitable as Trump has not forgiven Zelenskyy for campaigning for Kamala Harris and he is simply seeking revenge. My mate in Moscow is bewildered at how tight the arms of the West were securely gripping Putin`s neck only for that grip to loosen and he is invited back to the party as if nothing has happened. Putin must have something on Trump 🤔 DunfyDave Reply |
| 6. Author: AdamAntsParsStripe Date: Sat 1st Mar 2025. 21:09 DunfyDave, Sat 1 Mar 15:11 You have to remember that while Trump has the title of President, he is really just a businessman who cares not a jot for world affairs or wars. His meeting in North Korea in his first stint was a major clue to this. He’s a madman with a button. Zwei Pints Bier und ein Päckchen Chips bitte  Reply |
| 7. Author: Dandy Warhol Date: Sun 2nd Mar 2025. 08:48 This was always about Ukraines resources imo, Biden gives Zelensky money to send all the men to die without committing anything else and Trump comes in to tell Zelensky he`s been had and takes the resources. Depopulation and a heist all at the same time. The American way. I don`t wanna go down like disco. Reply |
| 8. Author: dafc Date: Sun 2nd Mar 2025. 15:32 Ukraine has limited options if they truly seek a resolution. They either face a full takeover by Russia, losing everything, or they accept the deal with the USA, which offers the border protection they requested, but at a price. Trump, being the businessman he is, won’t send resources without something in return. Meanwhile, Europe will never reach any consensus on the matter. I would also have knocked out the reporter who asked about wearing a suit! I’m sure a suit doesn’t define any person or their ability, just an attempt to embarrass him Reply |
| 9. Author: jake89 Date: Sun 2nd Mar 2025. 15:42 dafc, Sun 2 Mar 15:32 I agree but the risk of negotiating with the likes of Putin is he then takes another bit and then another bit. Reply |
| 10. Author: Bletchley_Par Date: Sun 2nd Mar 2025. 16:05 Topic Originator: jake89 It`s called salami tactics and was first coined in reference to soviet encroachment. Part of the german unification negotiations between James Baker and Gorbachev was that NATO would not go "not one inch eastward". 16 countries have joined nato since then. Czech Republic - March 12, 1999 Hungary - March 12, 1999 Poland - March 12, 1999 Bulgaria - March 29, 2004 Estonia - March 29, 2004 Latvia - March 29, 2004 Lithuania - March 29, 2004 Romania - March 29, 2004 Slovakia - March 29, 2004 Slovenia - March 29, 2004 Albania - April 1, 2009 Croatia - April 1, 2009 Montenegro - June 5, 2017 North Macedonia - March 27, 2020 Finland - April 4, 2023 Sweden - March 7, 2024 So your fear of another bit and bit salami tactics of Putin seems a little bit of putting the cart before the horse, we have been doing it for 35 years. . Post Edited (Sun 02 Mar 16:06) Reply |
| 11. Author: jake89 Date: Sun 2nd Mar 2025. 16:36 Bletchley_Par, Sun 2 Mar 16:05 So Putin`s solution to the encroachment of NATO nations is to *checks notes* extend Russia into Ukraine making "Russia" even closer. Why is Russia bothered about NATO nations? No one`s plotting to invade Russia. I`d be more concerned about the other side of Russia given proximity to the US. Reply |
| 12. Author: Bletchley_Par Date: Sun 2nd Mar 2025. 16:52 Topic Originator: jake89 NATO was set up to with the express purpose of stopping Russia, yes you stop encroachment moving closer to the opposition lines. Don`t worry about the Russian eastern expanse, while Siberia and Alaska are close in terms of landmass the areas of large population are about 3000 miles apart, no battles will be fought there. Post Edited (Sun 02 Mar 16:54) Reply |
| 13. Author: DunfyDave Date: Sun 2nd Mar 2025. 17:44 Putin or Gorbachev have ZERO rights to tell any sovereign country what organization they can or cannot join. Imagine where they would tell us to go if we demanded the same from them? This is a land-grab by Putin pure and simple. He has offered Ukraine security assurances before in return for Ukraine to surrender all nuclear weapons. How did that work out for them? Now Trump is attempting a land-grab of his own. The price? Zero. Great deal eh? But it gets worse, in return America is willing to offer Russia every concession they want including guarantees that Article 5 will not be triggered. In fact the Americans are on record stating that Europes defence is no longer an American concern. So whilst British troops are deployed as Peacekeepers to Ukraine and protecting Donald Trump`s new territory, Russian troops can take pot-shots at our soldiers without any consequences that Article 5 would be triggered. This resembles a mafia protection racket. Trump is bullying Ukraine and blackmailing Europe to do his bidding. As it currently stands, we do have a deal with the USA and it dates back to 1949 when NATO was first formed. Trump is no deal-maker. In fact his hints to dissolve NATO would make him a deal-breaker DunfyDave Reply |
| 14. Author: Bletchley_Par Date: Sun 2nd Mar 2025. 18:02 Topic Originator: DunfyDave The agreement was with NATO that they would not expand, not dictating which countries could join. This is a land-grab by Putin pure and simple. He has offered Ukraine security assurances before in return for Ukraine to surrender all nuclear weapons. How did that work out for them? Yes it`s a land grab to secure Donbas and other ethno-Russian areas. Now Trump is attempting a land-grab of his own. The price? Zero. Great deal eh? Land grab?!? The rare Earth deal? That came from Zelenskyy and will be profitable for both sides. But it gets worse, in return America is willing to offer Russia every concession they want including guarantees that Article 5 will not be triggered. In fact the Americans are on record stating that Europes defence is no longer an American concern. Yeah, having those troops in such close proximity is inherently dangerous. Trump is no deal-maker. Lol, I wish I`d read this first I wouldn`t have bothered responding.  Reply |
| 15. Author: jake89 Date: Sun 2nd Mar 2025. 18:09 Bletchley_Par, Sun 2 Mar 16:52 Except it wasn`t. There was discussion around an agreement not to expand but I don`t believe this was ever written down. Happy to be proven wrong if you have a source stating this. Reply |
| 16. Author: hurricane_jimmy Date: Sun 2nd Mar 2025. 18:20 Worth pointing out that only 17% of the pre-war Ukrainian population are ethnically Russian, while 31% considered Russian their first language. The reason for this disparity is the Brezhnev doctrines, which basically turned the Soviet Union into the Russian Empire. So the stuff about "ethno-Russian lines" is just nonsense. Also, does it not have a wee bit of a Grosse Deutschland type vibe to it? I thought one of Putin`s goals was "De-nazification"? How odd ... Jake is also right about the NATO stuff. There was never a formal promise. Plus the fact, should it not tell you something that the former Soviet countries pretty much bashed down the door to join NATO? Reply |
| 17. Author: Bletchley_Par Date: Sun 2nd Mar 2025. 18:25 If it`s not in the Q and A, it didn`t happen.  But it is, so it did. Post Edited (Sun 02 Mar 18:26) Reply |
| 18. Author: Bletchley_Par Date: Sun 2nd Mar 2025. 19:00 Not so much the percentages of Russian speakers, more where they congregate. We have to take the figure from the 2001 census rather than the 2022 one because officially no one speaks Russian in Ukraine since the Ukrainian regime banned it in 2017.  Reply |
| 19. Author: hurricane_jimmy Date: Sun 2nd Mar 2025. 19:03 I`ve actually seen this one before during my courses. What actually happened was that such a promise was mooted in negotiations between the Soviet Union and the US but it was subsequently rejected by Mitterrand, Kohl and Thatcher as it would violate the sovereign choices of the nations of Eastern Europe and so it was dropped. Try again. Reply |
| 20. Author: hurricane_jimmy Date: Sun 2nd Mar 2025. 19:06 That`s a very interesting map. So the immediate border zones with Russia in Donetsk and Luhanksk Oblasts were lived on by ethnic Ukrainians/Ukrainian speakers who needed rescuing by the Russians? Seems legit...😂 Reply |
Post your Reply
Your Message:
By using your account you have implicitly accepted the DAFC.net Forum Rules and agree to be bound by them. You also agree that you will take sole responsibility for your post and indemnify dafc.net on all matters and costs. Refrain from making any potentially libelous comments about anyone
- - -