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Topic: Trump v Zelenskyy
21. Author: hurricane_jimmy Date: Sun 2nd Mar 2025. 19:10 Oh, and when it comes to Language Policy in Ukraine, that whole hornets nest was stirred up by the Party of Regions who were firmly pro-Russia. Oddly enough, they didn`t fancy extending the same language rights they were demanding for themselves to the ethnic Hungarians in Transcarpathia...go figure.. Reply
22. Author: DunfyDave Date: Sun 2nd Mar 2025. 19:16 hurricane_jimmy, Sun 2 Mar 18:20 Worth pointing out that only 17% of the pre-war Ukrainian population are ethnically Russian, while 31% considered Russian their first language. The reason for this disparity is the Brezhnev doctrines, which basically turned the Soviet Union into the Russian Empire. So the stuff about "ethno-Russian lines" is just nonsense. Also, does it not have a wee bit of a Grosse Deutschland type vibe to it? I thought one of Putin`s goals was "De-nazification"? How odd ... Jake is also right about the NATO stuff. There was never a formal promise. Plus the fact, should it not tell you something that the former Soviet countries pretty much bashed down the door to join NATO? ^^^ Spot-On HJ Almost every liberated country from the former Soviet Block was desperate for NATO membership as an assurance that Russia could never again invade. We should have been quicker of the mark with Ukraine and offered them tougher assurances back in the 90`s DunfyDave Reply
23. Author: jake89 Date: Sun 2nd Mar 2025. 20:07 Bletchley_Par, Sun 2 Mar 18:25 If it`s not in the Q and A, it didn`t happen. But it is, so it did. That is taken from a back and forth. It`s been debunked many times that this was ever agreed. If it was, it would be in a signed document. I really doubt Russia agreed to German unification on the back of "trust me bro". Regardless, this expansion has been occurring for many years. Let`s just be honest here - Putin sees Ukraine as Russian and just wants to take it. If he genuinely believes Ukraine is being held under a dictator and is trying to help, does he genuinely believe bombing the crap out of it is helping? Reply
24. Author: DunfyDave Date: Sun 2nd Mar 2025. 20:23 jake89, Sun 2 Mar 20:07 Bletchley_Par, Sun 2 Mar 18:25 If it`s not in the Q and A, it didn`t happen. But it is, so it did. That is taken from a back and forth. It`s been debunked many times that this was ever agreed. If it was, it would be in a signed document. I really doubt Russia agreed to German unification on the back of "trust me bro". Regardless, this expansion has been occurring for many years. Let`s just be honest here - Putin sees Ukraine as Russian and just wants to take it. If he genuinely believes Ukraine is being held under a dictator and is trying to help, does he genuinely believe bombing the crap out of it is helping? ^^^ Well said Jake Belarus is run by a deranged dictator and he is not exactly running to their aid ,🤔😁 North Korea is run by a deranged dictator and they seem to be chums. DunfyDave Reply
25. Author: Andrew283 Date: Sun 2nd Mar 2025. 23:46 Waiting for the deflection or sudden pivot to a new talking point, any minute now... Reply
26. Author: sadindiefreak Date: Mon 3rd Mar 2025. 01:19 Bletchley_Par, Sun 2 Mar 19:00 Not so much the percentages of Russian speakers, more where they congregate. We have to take the figure from the 2001 census rather than the 2022 one because officially no one speaks Russian in Ukraine since the Ukrainian regime banned it in 2017. My ex wife is a Russian speaker from the next town over from Mariupol. She doesn`t know one single person who wants to be Russian. From just looking at your map of where Russian is the first language I can tell its BS. Russian was the language everyone used to talk to each other in Kyiv until the full scale invasion. Now people speak Ukrainian mainly. Zelenskyy himself is a native Russian speaker and only learned Ukrainian when he became president. Reply
27. Author: Bletchley_Par Date: Mon 3rd Mar 2025. 01:23 Topic Originator: jake89 Date: Sun 2 Mar 20:07 That is taken from a back and forth. It`s been debunked many times that this was ever agreed. If it was, it would be in a signed document. I really doubt Russia agreed to German unification on the back of "trust me bro". Regardless, this expansion has been occurring for many years. Let`s just be honest here - Putin sees Ukraine as Russian and just wants to take it. If he genuinely believes Ukraine is being held under a dictator and is trying to help, does he genuinely believe bombing the crap out of it is helping? So you claim you know this has been debunked, even though it is in the archive the address is right there, but also claim you didn`t know anything was written down? M`kay. In the six months following this meeting 450k Soviet troops were removed from East Germany and yes I think Moscow took any pledge as a sign to take troops home, I think they knew Yeltsin or someone like him was going to make a power grab. I think Putin sees Zelenskyy as a western puppet rather than a dictator, you ask why he was bombing the crap out of Ukraine? I`d ask Ukraine if it really thought Donbas was part of Ukraine then why they have been bombing the crap out it for 8 years? I think we are all in a bit of trouble here, I`m not confident there will be enough to this coalition of the willing to protect everything at risk from Putin if the US is not part of it. Reply
28. Author: Bletchley_Par Date: Mon 3rd Mar 2025. 01:34 Topic Originator: sadindiefreak Date: Mon 3 Mar 01:19 My ex wife is a Russian speaker from the next town over from Mariupol. She doesn`t know one single person who wants to be Russian. I`ve got in-laws in Donetsk, been a few times I agree it`s majority Ukrainian language and culture. Reply
29. Author: sadindiefreak Date: Mon 3rd Mar 2025. 02:15 Bletchley_Par, Mon 3 Mar 01:34 Topic Originator: sadindiefreak Date: Mon 3 Mar 01:19 My ex wife is a Russian speaker from the next town over from Mariupol. She doesn`t know one single person who wants to be Russian. I`ve got in-laws in Donetsk, been a few times I agree it`s majority Ukrainian language and culture. I think you might well be a liar as Donetsk is majority Russian speakers but Ukrainian people and culture. Reply
30. Author: Bletchley_Par Date: Mon 3rd Mar 2025. 03:14 opic Originator: sadindiefreak Date: Mon 3 Mar 02:15 I think you might well be a liar as Donetsk is majority Russian speakers but Ukrainian people and culture. You may be correct about the language in the city, my lived experience of the oblast is different. If I`m lying it certainly is a long lie, as I`ve mentioned this before on here. Reply
31. Author: P Date: Mon 3rd Mar 2025. 06:54 Bletchley_Par, Sun 2 Mar 18:25 If it`s not in the Q and A, it didn`t happen. But it is, so it did. That’s a memo not a signed contract, do you actually think this is what formal agreements that are expected to stand up for 30 plus years looks like 😂 Post Edited (Mon 03 Mar 06:55) Reply
32. Author: DunfyDave Date: Mon 3rd Mar 2025. 08:51 BP the Russians have been nothing but awful to Ukraine for centuries. Millions died from famine in the 1930s. The Russian language only came about through forced doctrines in schools in attempt to kill-off the Ukrainian language. The expansion of NATO discussions were nothing more than that, simple discussions that ultimately led nowhere which may lead you to believe that perhaps Russia was unfairly treated at the time? But not me! Russia has proven itself for a very long time that they themselves cannot be trusted. They have broken so many agreements, lied and murdered their way into power. Every former Soviet linked neighbours, given the opportunity, declared independence from Russia and ran like hell into the arms of the West. Why do you think that is? Ever since the birth of Ukraine it has been plagued by aggressive foreign influence from it`s bully neighbour. The border lines were drawn-up by Gorbachev himself and from that day Russia has been undermining Ukraine and slowly stealing land back. So Russia feared NATO expansion as it threatened their borders and the risk of war? So they went to war? WTF? I will reiterate again, Russia has absolutely no right to dictate to another sovereign nation how they decide best to govern themselves. DunfyDave Reply
33. Author: hurricane_jimmy Date: Mon 3rd Mar 2025. 10:31 I dated a lass from Donetsk for a period in Sweden. She considered herself half-half ethnically but Russian to be her first language as her Mum is from Donetsk and her Dad is from Odessa. Can confirm that both cities are majority Russian speaking, but there is a trend that Ukrainian was more commonly spoken in the countryside and Russian more in the cities, even to the point where they were used interchangeably in conversation. Up until 2022 of course. As DD has kinda inferred, the Soviets made quite a conscious effort to build up the Eastern/Russian parts of the Eastern SSRs and filled them with Russians to maintain a foothold. So yeah, Bletchley talking mince once again and ignoring anything that counters his false narrative. Putin has form for starting wars to distract the Russian population when his political power is starting to wean and the Ukraine Conflict is simply another example of that. Georgia and Chechnya are the others... The thing is, the Imperialist mindset is quite embedded in the Russian psyche: If you talk to Russians you`ll hear often that Ukraine was "divided falsely" with blame placed on Lenin or Gorbachev. Another common one is that "the Baltic states are a joke". Rather similar to how the English call themselves British and think Scots are "the same", no? Post Edited (Mon 03 Mar 10:34) Reply
34. Author: DunfyDave Date: Mon 3rd Mar 2025. 10:54 Perfectly pitched Hurricane 👍 DunfyDave Reply
35. Author: Bletchley_Par Date: Mon 3rd Mar 2025. 11:12 Topic Originator: P Date: Mon 3 Mar 06:54 That’s a memo not a signed contract, do you actually think this is what formal agreements that are expected to stand up for 30 plus years looks like 😂 It is the minutes of a meeting. You are the only poster talking about signed contracts. Reply
36. Author: P Date: Mon 3rd Mar 2025. 12:47 Bletchley_Par, Mon 3 Mar 11:12 Topic Originator: P Date: Mon 3 Mar 06:54 That’s a memo not a signed contract, do you actually think this is what formal agreements that are expected to stand up for 30 plus years looks like 😂 It is the minutes of a meeting. You are the only poster talking about signed contracts. Ah good so we agree there is no formal committed agreement so you can stop throwing that one up as a justification 👍🏼 Reply
37. Author: jake89 Date: Mon 3rd Mar 2025. 14:05 Bletchley_Par, Mon 3 Mar 11:12 Topic Originator: P Date: Mon 3 Mar 06:54 That’s a memo not a signed contract, do you actually think this is what formal agreements that are expected to stand up for 30 plus years looks like 😂 It is the minutes of a meeting. You are the only poster talking about signed contracts. Whether it`s minutes or a memo, it`s not a binding agreement. Reply
38. Author: DunfyDave Date: Mon 3rd Mar 2025. 14:33 jake89, Mon 3 Mar 14:05 Bletchley_Par, Mon 3 Mar 11:12 Topic Originator: P Date: Mon 3 Mar 06:54 That’s a memo not a signed contract, do you actually think this is what formal agreements that are expected to stand up for 30 plus years looks like 😂 It is the minutes of a meeting. You are the only poster talking about signed contracts. Whether it`s minutes or a memo, it`s not a binding agreement. ^^^ Putin goes to great lengths to to argue that it was verbal and legally binding but that`s his opinion. George Bush Senior discussed it with Gorbachev but these were preliminary and needed ratification which never materialised. Russia to this day feels betrayed by this ungentlemanly conduct by Bush Senior that it ultimately ended in them invading Ukraine DunfyDave Reply
39. Author: Dave_1885 Date: Tue 4th Mar 2025. 18:24 So Trumps blackmailing seems to have frightening Zelensky into submission………meanwhile the UK still standing by them whilst Vance mocks all the US allies 🙄 What an absolute mess and Putin will be lapping it up! Reply
40. Author: Andrew283 Date: Tue 4th Mar 2025. 20:14 Vance really is a tiny brained little turd. Reply

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