Topic: Israel must stop |
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61. Author: OzPar Date: Sun 9th Jun 2024. 04:06 HJ said: Oz, is there a wee bit of sour grapes there because you were found wanting in terms of your knowledge of Ukrainian and Russian history? If so, you need to grow up because you are Hamas` "useful idiot". === Haha! No sour grapes, HJ. I will be 70 this year, so if I haven`t grown up, I should celebrate discovering the fountain of youth! I am neither a defender nor a detractor of Hamas. I may not like their methods, but I sympathise with their cause. In certain respects, you may well be close to the truth when you suggest I haven`t yet grown up. My opinion on Palestine has not changed in more than 50 years. On another thread, I related how my father was a paratrooper in the 6th Airborne Division, landing behind enemy lines in Normandy on D-Day. About nine months later, his division advanced to the Baltic to meet the Russians at Wismar. On their way there, they passed the Bergen Belsen Concentration Camp and were horrified by the appalling condition of the prisoners they saw, primarily Jewish. After the war ended, the division was sent to Palestine to help police the British Mandate before the state of Israel was established. It is fair to say that the paras went to Palestine with considerable sympathy for the Jews. However, the Jews were impatient for their state. Through increasingly militant Zionist organisations like Irgun, Hagunah, and the LHI (known as the Stern Gang), they created the template for modern-day terrorism, and their primary target was the British Army. Used to conventional fighting in Europe, British troops found it difficult to deal with the particularly violent actions of Irgun and LHI. My Dad described to me as a teenager the horrors he experienced in almost two years in Palestine. He and his mates dug through the rubble of the King David Hotel in Jerusalem, looking for survivors after the Irgun bombed it - 91 died. A young soldier in his brigade was discovered "cooked" in a locked tin trunk that the Stern Gang had deliberately left under the midday sun in a town square. And, of course, there was the infamous incident where two soldiers were hung and their bodies booby-trapped with explosives. We should never forget that more than 750 British Army personnel lost their lives in the three years leading up to the establishment of Israel. It was a very dirty war, and the perpetrators founded the Likud Party, and their successors became the leaders of today`s Israel. Reply |
62. Author: aaaaaaaaaargh Date: Sun 9th Jun 2024. 14:43 The 1.8% figure comes from a poll that was carried out in the aftermath of the October 7th attacks during a period where I think they were still finding the bodies of some victims. A poll last month said 56% of Israelis think it is more important to negotiate the release of the hostages than to continue the war with Hamas, but let`s nuke Tel Aviv anyway. Reply |
63. Author: Dave_1885 Date: Sun 9th Jun 2024. 17:49 They rescued 4 hostages from Hamas strongholds the other day. Reports are that 400 people perished in the attempt. The hostages were supposedly in good condition medically. Got to wonder how that could be when Hamas are so barbaric? Reply |
64. Author: OzPar Date: Mon 10th Jun 2024. 07:58 HJ said: Honestly, I`m becoming more convinced that Oz is becoming a bit of a "Tankie" and just thinks the West is at fault for everything... It`s genuinely quite dangerous when folk start claiming that those who actually have experience of something are spouting "fake news" as has been the case with Oz toward SIF on this thread. === I don’t doubt SIF’s sincerity for a moment, but I do question his sources, as I do yours, HJ. I confess I had never heard of “Tankie” until now. I had to look up its meaning, and I can confirm I am neither a communist nor am I particularly sympathetic to that cause. You see, I experienced life in a traditional communist system, albeit just for a few days, in 1970, when I visited the Soviet Union as a school student. The country I visited was not the grim and monochromatic dystopia painted by the Western media at the time but a place rich in history, beauty, and the warmth of its people. Yet, the contradictions I witnessed in Leningrad and Moscow were undeniable, as communism`s promises clashed with the reality experienced by the young Soviets I met. So, when I assert that Russia is winning its war against Ukraine, I am not doing so based on ideology but on a review of the available evidence provided by parties from all sides. We’ve discussed this before; I don’t need to repeat it. The same is true for BRICS and de-dollarisation; I will say that America’s hegemony is ending, while BRICS is growing stronger and stronger, with Russia, China, India, Turkey, and Iran at its centre. We are fast moving towards a multipolar world—and not all folk in the West think that is a bad thing! === SIF said: “Hamas are well known for using schools and hospitals to run their terrorist operations from. Your reaction is precisely why they do it… I`ve seen the photos released of the body bags resulting from this missile strike. Definitely no children involved. Full size body bags. Israel used surveillance drones and local intelligence to confirm this was a Hamas operating centre. No mistakes made on this occasion.” === And your source for this, SIF? The Israeli Defence Force? I provided a link to an on-the-ground Al Jazeera report with accompanying photographs of the dead - no body bags in sight, the bodies are wrapped in blankets and carpets. Israel was founded on a lie, and it continues to live on lie after lie after lie. Lies and distractions – “Don’t look here… look over there… and there!” Where are the tunnels under the hospitals containing the Hamas control centres? Where are the beheaded babies? The mass rapes? All Israeli lies! And since we have had the Israeli raid that "rescued" four hostages. More than 270 Palestinians died, and 700 were wounded, some critically, but the Western media is full of triumphant joy. Barely any mention that among the dead were three more hostages... Reply |
65. Author: OzPar Date: Mon 17th Jun 2024. 05:02 Virtually every day, we see videos of little children dead, cradled in their helpless parent`s arms in Gaza, or we see kids crying in the rubble of bombed-out buildings looking for someone, anyone, in their family to offer them protection, or kids in a broken-down hospital with limbs amputated by frantic doctors forced to perform operations without anaesthetic. What if you are kept contained in the world`s biggest open prison while foreign-born imposters steal your people`s land? What if someone takes away your ability to find a political solution for 75 years? And what if you hear some fool ask: why don`t you condemn Hamas? If it were me, I would have to say: hell no, I don`t condemn Hamas! If these had been my kids, I would be coming after you in any way I could! How can any person of conscience condemn a violent resistance movement of freedom fighters against a nuclear-powered police state that bases its whole existence on apartheid and is committed to the extermination of 2.3 million human beings? The tragedy is that all this killing has nothing to do with religion or ideology; at its core, this is all an elaborate land grab. Nothing more. Reply |
66. Author: OzPar Date: Tue 25th Jun 2024. 01:47 When the White House spokesman was asked about the killing of a 6-year-old child by Israel, he said that the US asked Israel to investigate: Reporter: "An Israeli tank likely killed 6yr-old Hind Rajab, her car was hit with 355 bullets." Miller: "Israel says there were no tanks in the area." Reporter: "So, who shot the 355 bullets?" Miller: "We`ve asked Israel to investigate." === Lies after lies after lies. Zionism is the devil`s work! A high proportion of the Israeli population are Ashkenazi Jews, in other words, Europeans of Russian, Polish, Romanian, German and Hungarian descent. They are not Middle Eastern, indigenous to the region, or... wait for it... Semitic. Israel has one of the highest skin cancer rates in the world. Now, ask yourself, why would that be? Most Israelis have changed their names from Eastern European to more Hebrew-sounding names. Since its inception, every prime minister of Israel has done so—Benjamin Netanyahu`s father, Benzion Mileikowsky, who was born in Warsaw, changed his name when he moved to Israel. Netanyahu was born in Tel Aviv but was educated and spent most of his life, up to the age of 18, in the USA. For a very good reason, Israel bans DNA tests. These tricksters don`t have a genuine claim to the land they have stolen. Reply |
67. Author: OzPar Date: Sat 13th Jul 2024. 03:14 I refuse to let this thread disappear and will keep bringing it to the top. Given the frequency of the atrocities being committed by Israel, that should not be a difficult task. It surprises and disappoints me in equal measure that other Pars fans don’t seem willing to engage on this topic to any significant degree. I can think of no greater evil action this century. The UK medical journal The Lancet estimates the deaths in Gaza to be up to 186,000 if allowance is made for those poor souls missing or compressed under the concrete rubble, whose deaths will never officially be recorded. That is 8% of the population of Gaza. The horror and extent of the depravity are almost unimaginable, but the Zionists insist on deflecting us with repeated calls to remember October 7. And now, finally, the Israeli paper Haaretz admits in its English-language edition that on October 7, the so-called Hannibal Directive was applied, allowing Israeli Defence Forces to kill their own people to prevent them from being taken hostage in Gaza. They did so using Apache attack helicopters, tanks and artillery. Haaretz suggests that perhaps the majority of the 1,200 Israelis who died on October 7 were killed by their own defence force. Most of us will have seen the photos and videos disseminated by the Israeli Government of hundreds of cars roasted in which Israelis were burned alive and of fire-scarred houses with large sections blown away where those who were inside would have had no chance to survive. Were we really asked to believe that this was the result of action taken by Hamas fighters using small arms carried over their shoulders? Yes, we were, and most of us believed because every government leader and media outlet told us we should believe! But, as the Israelis now admit, this was a lie - the biggest lie of all! Even more significant than the subsequent false claims of burnt babies, multiple rapes, beheadings. This is significant because 186,000 Gazans are dead. The embarrassing truth is that there was an official cover-up of one of the most decisive events of recent history, and our leaders and media were complicit in this cover-up. Reply |
68. Author: Andrew283 Date: Sat 13th Jul 2024. 08:34 sadindiefreak, Thu 6 Jun 21:26 Yes, suck up that Zionist propaganda Reply |
69. Author: parsfan Date: Sat 13th Jul 2024. 09:43 OzPar, Sat 13 Jul 03:14 From Haaretz a week ago: Haaretz does not know whether or how many civilians and soldiers were hit due to these procedures, but the cumulative data indicates that many of the kidnapped people were at risk, exposed to Israeli gunfire, even if they were not the target. Edit-Link probably won't work properly without subscribing - but no payment. From Al Jazeera: A United Nations-backed report from last month put the total number of civilians and soldiers lost to Israeli fire that day at more than a dozen. However, Haaretz said it is impossible to determine the extent of Israeli losses as a result of the directive. Can you link to the article where Haaretz suggests that perhaps the majority of the 1,200 Israelis who died on October 7 were killed by their own defence force. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The universe is ruled by chance and indifference Post Edited (Sat 13 Jul 09:46) Reply |
70. Author: OzPar Date: Sat 13th Jul 2024. 10:50 Parsfan, I was going to suggest, why don`t you check the BBC or other British news sites? But, would you believe only The Guardian seems to have some brief coverage of this? You really have to ask some serious questions about your mainstream media—evidence, as if it were needed, that they are misinforming you on a grand scale. This is a MAJOR global news story with massive fatal consequences. Now you see why I obtain my news from various sources. Indeed, had the original Palestine/Israel thread not been deleted in this forum, you would see that I first mentioned the Hannibal Directive regarding the events of October 7 towards the end of October last year, when the independent media started reporting on it. Meanwhile, the Western media continues to parrot the dangerous Zionist nonsense, and no one in the mainstream seems prepared to stand up to defend the Palestinians. If you question the number of victims of the IDF in the IDF-declared `kill zone", please take a look at the pictures of the destroyed shells of cars said to be the vehicles of revellers at the Novo Electronic Music Festival - there are hundreds of them - and ask yourself how Hamas militants, with their Kalashnikovs and rocket-propelled grenades, managed this? Now we know the truth: they could not have managed it. It was Israeli Hellfire missiles and tank shells following the order given by Israeli Southern Command to ensure that "Not a single vehicle can return to Gaza." How many civilians were toasted in each of those cars? One, two, three, four? Do the math! And ask your questions of Israelis, not me. Edit to add: The "more than a dozen" mentioned in the UN report quoted by Al Jazeera refers to a single incident in one of the Kibbutz, not the attack at the music festival. Post Edited (Sat 13 Jul 10:55) Reply |
71. Author: parsfan Date: Sat 13th Jul 2024. 13:04 So, no link then? I`ve not questioned any figures. I`ve questioned the veracity of your claim that an Israeli newspaper said perhaps the majority of the 1,200 Israelis who died on October 7 were killed by their own defence force. I`d read the Guardian`s article and watched half an hour or so of Al Jazeera`s coverage yesterday and there was no suggestion of that level of self inflicted deaths. I checked AJ online nothing there either, if true I thought they`d be all over it. Where did it come from? Did you just make it up or was it from one of the sources you trust so much? Are we to not trust Al Jazeera any more? Are they part of the Western media which continues to parrot the dangerous Zionist nonsense now? Were you not singing their praises earlier? Don`t get me wrong, I`m broadly in agreement with you on much of this but, as the Israelies are discovering, the more you get caught out with verifiably untrue statements the less seriously people will take the rest of your arguments. I`m happy for it to be shown as verifiably true, just don`t think it will be. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The universe is ruled by chance and indifference Reply |
72. Author: Raymie the Legend Date: Sat 13th Jul 2024. 22:05 We are witnessing genocide in front of our eyes every day. The west is complicit It`s bloody tough being a legend Ron Atkinson - 1983 Reply |
73. Author: LochgellyAlbert Date: Sun 14th Jul 2024. 09:47 Raymie the Legend, Sat 13 Jul 22:05 Totally agree! Reply |
74. Author: OzPar Date: Thu 25th Jul 2024. 23:55 Seeing Netanyahu lauded the way he was in Washington was pretty distressing. It was a stark illustration of the power of the zionist lobby and the extent to which it has choked any concept of democracy. Any outsider watching this would quickly conclude that the Americans should not be involved in seeking a peace settlement in the Middle East. Reply |
75. Author: LochgellyAlbert Date: Fri 26th Jul 2024. 09:39 Nice to see Harris going against the grain!🤔👍 Reply |
76. Author: The One Who Knocks Date: Sat 27th Jul 2024. 22:26 War between Israel and the Iranian backed Hezbollah takes another step closer to happening (and it was already close) after Hezbollah rocket bomb a football pitch killing a number of teens and young people. And although my eyes were open They just might as well be closed Reply |
77. Author: OzPar Date: Tue 30th Jul 2024. 07:14 As always, if you hang around long enough, the Israelis reveal themselves to be despicable liars. And again, this has proved to be the case with this incident. Multiple independent sources have confirmed that it was not a Hezbollah rocket that killed the 12 Syrian boys at the football pitch in the Israeli-occupied town of Majdal Shams. The prevailing view is that it was a misfired rocket from the Israeli Iron Dome. There is much evidence to support that conclusion, not least a video of the rocket landing, the minimal size of the bomb crater, the extensive holes in surrounding walls suggestive of the small shrapnel that comes from interceptor rockets, and probably most telling, the IDF moved in swiftly to remove all traces of the missile. Some people claim it was a false flag attack, an attempt by Israel to find an excuse to mount a full-scale attack on Lebanon. Whatever the case, it is entirely disingenuous to see Zionist tears for 12 Druze Arab children killed in the Golan Heights on land stolen by the Israelis in 1967. Netanyahu and his cabinet colleagues were told in no uncertain terms that they were not welcome at the boys` funeral. There was no place there for their insincere displays of grief. According to Save the Children, 13,800 kids have been murdered by Israel in Gaza since October 7. That is in 297 days... in other words, 46 children are murdered every day in Gaza by Israel. Tens of thousands have been badly injured or lost limbs, and God knows how many have died of starvation or trauma-related causes. But fair do`s to you, TOWK, for picking up on the alleged Hezbollah atrocity. Good luck to you in your unrelenting support of mass genocide in Palestine. Reply |
78. Author: sadindiefreak Date: Tue 30th Jul 2024. 09:27 OzPar, Tue 30 Jul 07:14 Can you share these Independent sources as the only source I can find even mentioning this is Middle East Eye which says it`s a Hezbollah claim. Reply |
79. Author: The One Who Knocks Date: Tue 30th Jul 2024. 09:28 I`ll ignore that cheap shot at the end there Oz and instead ask you to name some of these independent sources that prove it was an Israeli rocket. I hope they are more reliable than the ones that told you that George Galloway was one of the worlds most influential politicians, he was going to stop Labour winning a majority and that Ukraine was going to collapse imminently. A false flag to justify a full scale war against Lebanon? Yeah because that`s what Israel wants, another major military operation however since they have been trading artillery and rocket attacks with Hezbollah for months now there would be no need to fabricate any additional justification. They`ve been on the brink of full scale conflict with Hezbollah since the students end of last year. Post Edited (Tue 30 Jul 09:29) Reply |
80. Author: OzPar Date: Tue 30th Jul 2024. 11:09 I am not going to play ping-pong with you guys. Although I have repeatedly provided links on request, I will be cautious about doing so in the future. Here are some, and there are plenty more if you look yourself. As I said, the prevailing view in the Middle East is that it was a misfired rocket from Israel`s Iron Dome. Hezbollah has no beef with the Syrians. These links are not from the regular UK or US media, which I no longer trust. Dialogue Works - Col. Jacques Baud https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xYCni0nVTc Former US Ambassador Charles Freedman https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PxiXesu8kTg The Cradle https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-7jqjNBPRk Former UK Ambassador Alastair Crooke https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDERjMb3ZIs As for your jibes about George Galloway and Ukraine, well, I will take the Galloway one. He was a disappointment, but there clearly was some underhand work going on against him. He was an MP with candidates standing in hundreds of seats. Reform UK had no MPs, yet was on every published poll and Farage was never off the TV. Galloway was deliberately starved of publicity and we saw the results. Ukraine? It`s been over for a long time. Ukraine does not have enough men left to fight. The US and Nato did the Devil`s work providing more funds to this hopeless cause. Thankfully, China is set to host negotiations between the two parties. With luck, the next few weeks should see the war`s conclusion. My sources are normally good. Most of my reporting on here has been pretty close to the mark. Reply |