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Topic: Palestine/Israel
181. Author:  Dave_1885        
Date: Sun 5th Nov 2023. 10:44

Problem is though, Oz, is that we aren’t sitting idly by and watching - the west are fully backing Israel and there position wont change.

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182. Author:  The One Who Knocks        
Date: Sun 5th Nov 2023. 10:48

"Their despicable behaviour over 75 years proves they need a sharp and painful reality check. And if that means one day the Knesset is made up of politicians who are Jewish, Arab, Palestinian, Christian, or whatever, then so be it. That`s real democracy, and one their neighbours will accept."

Why would there neighbours give a monkeys about real democracy? None of their neighbours are democratic.

And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed


Reply
183. Author:  jake89        
Date: Sun 5th Nov 2023. 11:12

This is going to sound like a daft question, but why do people dislike Jews? I couldn`t even tell you if I have Jewish friends or colleagues. What`s the deal?

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184. Author:  OzPar        
Date: Sun 5th Nov 2023. 11:15

TOWK, if you listen to the Muslim guy`s comments (see my post on Saturday at 09:21), you will get the answer to your question.

And Dave, I agree with you. But one has to hope that sentiment will change over time.



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185. Author:  The One Who Knocks        
Date: Sun 5th Nov 2023. 11:40

Jake, it goes back centuries. Hundreds of years ago Christians and, I think Muslims, couldn`t make money from money. As in they couldn`t charge interest. So the monarchs of various realms would invite Jews to live in their countries so that they could lend money to a community, to say build a well or bridge or whatever. Of course one way of not repaying this debt would be just to murder the Jew that lent you the money in the first place and it would be more justifiable to the scumbag that would do the killing to portray the Jews as inherently evil and disgusting people. It of course also lead to some Jewish families becoming wealthy and having a degree of influence but no more than any other group who had acquired wealth. The Jews lurking in the background as shadowy cabal running the world for their own benefit is one of the more dangerous anti semetic tropes and it is deeply ingrained into some.
I mean even Oz Par is affected by it. He was having some technical difficulty with his computer and his go to position was that it was maybe Israeli`s messing with his ability to be critical on a second tier Scottish football clubs football forum with a readership in the low hundreds.



Post Edited (Sun 05 Nov 11:41)

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186. Author:  jake89        
Date: Sun 5th Nov 2023. 11:47

Ah, so just historic nonsense then?

I`ve no doubt the world is controlled by people who are not elected leaders but also assume that`s known/accepted by the majority and doubt they`re all Jewish!

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187. Author:  OzPar        
Date: Sun 5th Nov 2023. 12:58

Hang on, TOWK. I explained what I thought might be happening. While there was a low likelihood, there was a possibility that by creating a link to a YouTube video that is highly critical of Israel, I may have triggered an algorithm that set off a wee bit of mischief on my laptop keyboard—nothing to do with dotnet.

Let`s be careful to distinguish between Jews and the State of Israel. I have worked for and with some excellent Jewish bosses and colleagues, and even had a Jewish girlfriend once upon a time. So please spare me the antisemitic accusations.

As for the State of Israel, I have a deep dislike for the current Israeli Government. For reasons I have already given in this thread, I`m not too fond of Likud because its terrorist creators tried to kill my father and succeeded in killing some of his closest friends.



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188. Author:  The One Who Knocks        
Date: Sun 5th Nov 2023. 13:55

I think it`s fair to say that you need to disassociate Likud from Israel the same way we are told to not conflate Hama`s with the Palestinians. Both are political movements voted into positions of power by some of their people however.
This is obviously an emotional issue for you but when you made the statement a couple of days ago;
"I say, hang on, something is interfering with this open discussion, and I say, well, F*CK YOU, ISRAELI C*NTS!", it certainly made me look twice.
At the time I couldn`t and still can`t figure out who you were raging at with that tirade? Suffice to say if you had put any other nationality before the C word I don`t doubt it would have been deemed unacceptable.

And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed


Reply
189. Author:  Bamba-Daft        
Date: Sun 5th Nov 2023. 14:22

The One Who Knocks, Sun 05 Nov 13:55

I think it`s fair to say that you need to disassociate Likud from Israel the same way we are told to not conflate Hama`s with the Palestinians. Both are political movements voted into positions of power by some of their people however.
This is obviously an emotional issue for you but when you made the statement a couple of days ago;
"I say, hang on, something is interfering with this open discussion, and I say, well, F*CK YOU, ISRAELI C*NTS!", it certainly made me look twice.
At the time I couldn`t and still can`t figure out who you were raging at with that tirade? Suffice to say if you had put any other nationality before the C word I don`t doubt it would have been deemed unacceptable.


A good point well made. Replace the word Israeli with say Pakistani, or Irish.. this forum would be in total meltdown.

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190. Author:  Luxembourg Par        
Date: Mon 6th Nov 2023. 17:03

Bamba-Daft, Sun 5 Nov 14:22

A good point well made. Replace the word Israeli with say Pakistani, or Irish.. this forum would be in total meltdown.


Hang on, I know quite a few good Irish c*nts!



Reply
191. Author:  OzPar        
Date: Tue 7th Nov 2023. 04:34

I wonder how long any one of you would last in Australia before someone called you a "Pommy c#nt"?

Picture, if you can, East End Park packed to the rafters with every seat occupied by a dead Palestinian. Every seat in the Norrie, every seat in the NW Stand, contains a dead child.
That is the scale of what has occurred in Gaza in the past month. It confounds common sense that the world is prepared to allow this evil to persist.

And now it is emerging that many of the early Israeli claims about the actions taken by Hamas on October 7 were untrue. Child beheadings, rapes, Jewish mass graves, even the number of Israelis killed by Hamas fighters. Fiction. Survivors of the attacks on a kibbutz told Israeli State Radio it was Israeli tank shells and indiscriminate IDF firing that "undoubtedly" killed many of the victims, not Hamas gunfire. Strangely, that was immediately suppressed. But, for some homework, go Google the meaning of the Israeli term, Hasbara, and the definition of the "Hannibal Doctrine".

We also now are learning that for years, the Israeli Government has referred to Gaza not as a concentration camp but as "The Lab", a place where they could test out new weaponry and surveillance devices. Doesn’t that remind you of the Nazis?

What country uses an ethnically cleansed and imprisoned population to test out weaponry? Water, fuel, and electricity are taken away from two million people who are having bombs rained down on them every day from an apartheid regime next door. Nowhere is safe – schools and hospitals are bombed – there is no distinguishing between civilians and combatants. Can you begin to imagine what that would be like? I saw a woman yesterday describing how she had lost 30 of her family in two days.

And when a Palestinian diplomat revealed on BBC TV that he had just lost six family members in Israeli strikes, Kirsty Wark replies, "Sorry for your personal loss. Can I just be clear, though? You cannot condone the killing of civilians in Israel, can you?"

The root cause of so much hate, strife and bloodshed is Zionism, a psychopathic nationalist movement that masquerades in a religion`s name. The truth is a high proportion of Jews have a low regard for Zionism, so why is there so much support for it in the West? Politics and the media are infested with supporters of Zionism. History shows that Jews and Muslims primarily lived in harmony in every Arab land until the awakening of Zionism and the creation of the Balfour Agreement. Cause and effect; it is obvious!

Ultimately, we have allowed our leaders to sponsor an apartheid regime in Tel Aviv in our name.

The sense of hopelessness with the Gaza situation can feel overwhelming. So, what can we do? Do we howl at the moon in a vain belief that this will help? Or do we actively boycott all support for Israel until they change their attitude towards their neighbours? And perhaps call them c#nts at every possible opportunity?



Reply
192. Author:  Raymie the Legend        
Date: Tue 7th Nov 2023. 09:28

Very good post, Oz.

What we are seeing is truly shameful and disgusting




It`s bloody tough being a legend
Ron Atkinson - 1983


Post Edited (Tue 07 Nov 09:30)

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193. Author:  Buspasspar        
Date: Tue 7th Nov 2023. 11:01

A very good and evocative post Oz

We are forever shaped by the Children we once were


Reply
194. Author:  GG Riva        
Date: Tue 7th Nov 2023. 16:36

OzPar, Tue 7 Nov 04:34

And now it is emerging that many of the early Israeli claims about the actions taken by Hamas on October 7 were untrue. Child beheadings, rapes, Jewish mass graves, even the number of Israelis killed by Hamas fighters. Fiction. Survivors of the attacks on a kibbutz told Israeli State Radio it was Israeli tank shells and indiscriminate IDF firing that "undoubtedly" killed many of the victims, not Hamas gunfire. Strangely, that was immediately suppressed. But, for some homework, go Google the meaning of the Israeli term, Hasbara, and the definition of the "Hannibal Doctrine".

We also now are learning that for years, the Israeli Government has referred to Gaza not as a concentration camp but as "The Lab", a place where they could test out new weaponry and surveillance devices. Doesn’t that remind you of the Nazis?

What country uses an ethnically cleansed and imprisoned population to test out weaponry? Water, fuel, and electricity are taken away from two million people who are having bombs rained down on them every day from an apartheid regime next door. Nowhere is safe – schools and hospitals are bombed – there is no distinguishing between civilians and combatants. Can you begin to imagine what that would be like? I saw a woman yesterday describing how she had lost 30 of her family in two days.

And when a Palestinian diplomat revealed on BBC TV that he had just lost six family members in Israeli strikes, Kirsty Wark replies, "Sorry for your personal loss. Can I just be clear, though? You cannot condone the killing of civilians in Israel, can you?"

The root cause of so much hate, strife and bloodshed is Zionism, a psychopathic nationalist movement that masquerades in a religion`s name. The truth is a high proportion of Jews have a low regard for Zionism, so why is there so much support for it in the West? Politics and the media are infested with supporters of Zionism. History shows that Jews and Muslims primarily lived in harmony in every Arab land until the awakening of Zionism and the creation of the Balfour Agreement. Cause and effect; it is obvious!

Ultimately, we have allowed our leaders to sponsor an apartheid regime in Tel Aviv in our name.

The sense of hopelessness with the Gaza situation can feel overwhelming. So, what can we do? Do we howl at the moon in a vain belief that this will help? Or do we actively boycott all support for Israel until they change their attitude towards their neighbours? And perhaps call them c#nts at every possible opportunity?


A passionate, well reasoned post, Oz.

As someone said further up, the first casualty of war is the truth. I don`t suppose this war is any different. Can you provide any links to the allegations you have listed in the first paragraph I have quoted above?



Not your average Sunday League player.


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195. Author:  jake89        
Date: Tue 7th Nov 2023. 18:03



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196. Author:  sammer        
Date: Tue 7th Nov 2023. 19:09

Using a full house EEP as a guide to the deaths reported so far in Gaza brings home the scale of what is taking place. We can but guess how many Hamas activists have been killed so far- the declared reason for Israel’s offensive- but I suspect their numbers would barely fill the small enclosures in front of the main stand. Such a ratio might be considered a healthy return by Israel for whom bombing an entire building or ambulance containing merely one Hamas fighter is considered a proportionate response.

Given the political inertia exhibited by Israel’s staunchest allies a sense of hopelessness is understandable. Simon Jenkins in The Guardian today confessed he can no longer watch the depressing TV news from Gaza, an odd decision for a journalist and one which earned him praise from some readers and a heap of derision from others. His head in the sand defeatism will be warmly welcomed by those political and media elements who, far from striving might and main to halt the genocide, are actively promoting it through supplying weapons and a free hand to the IDF.

Peace demonstrations across Europe and the Arab world, often in defiance of government edict, have unnerved a political elite that apparently believed they could ‘sell’ Israeli vengeance against a blockaded people, starved of basic human resources and with no air force, army or navy, as ‘self defence.’ If demonstrations changed nothing then Suella Braverman would not try to ban them. Today Tommy Robinson has been exhumed in order to threaten a counter-demo on Saturday, potentially enabling Braverman to issue a ban on safety grounds. People on the streets means political pressure, so this opposition needs to be maintained.

The Boycott, Divestment, Sanctions policy was apparently a good idea to isolate Russia back in February 2022 but those neo cons who barked it from many a microphone have been struck dumb now the target is Israel. Its champions should be reminded, forcefully, of their earlier enthusiasm. The policy was no great game changer in terms of Russia admittedly but Israel is a much smaller country with fewer natural resources. And if UN votes are anything to go by, Israel does not have many friends to spare. The anti-Hamas rant last week at the UN General Assembly by Israel’s ambassador was met with stony silence from a full hall of delegates.

sammer

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197. Author:  Tad Allagash        
Date: Tue 7th Nov 2023. 19:09

jake89 wrote:

>

Socialist Worker? Really?



Reply
198. Author:  jake89        
Date: Tue 7th Nov 2023. 19:34

Tad Allagash, Tue 7 Nov 19:09

jake89 wrote:

>

Socialist Worker? Really?


The ask was where it had been reported. Don`t shoot the messenger.

Reply
199. Author:  Parboiled        
Date: Tue 7th Nov 2023. 19:46

GG you can’t say a post is passionate and well argued and then ask for links to the allegations it is based on!
It could just be a load of unsubstantiated guff…



Reply
200. Author:  donj        
Date: Tue 7th Nov 2023. 20:37

https://www.thecanary.co/global/world-analysis/2023/10/13/israel-genocide-gaza-manufactured/



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