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| 281. Author: onandupthepars Date: Mon 27th Nov 2023. 17:07 From an article by Al Jazeera, 24 Nov 2023: [before the first releases were made] "The Israeli Ministry of Justice presented a list of 300 Palestinian prisoners who it is considering for release." "The list of 300 comprises 33 women. The majority of the rest of the names are of boys aged 16-18. However, there are also boys as young as 14 on the list." "Most of the prisoners on the list were arrested between 2021 and 2023. The prisoners arrested in 2023 were taken before October 7." "WHY ARE THEY IN PRISON? Many...prisoners have been convicted of crimes including carrying and manufacturing knives and daggers. Other common offences detailed in Israel’s list include: threatening security illegally entering Israel without a permit throwing stones supporting terrorism associating with hostile/unknown organisations." “The main alleged crime for these detentions is stone-throwing, which can carry a 20-year sentence in prison for Palestinian children,” said a report published in July by children’s rights organisation, Save the Children." https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/11/24/who-were-the-palestinian-prisoners-israel-released-on-friday Post Edited (Mon 27 Nov 17:20) Reply |
| 282. Author: veteraneastender Date: Mon 27th Nov 2023. 17:36 I have no idea, on a case by case basis, as to why Israel has imprisoned all the female Palestinians that they have incarcerated.........except that SOME have commited violent crimes that merit being imprisoned. Hopefully clear enough now? Reply |
| 283. Author: onandupthepars Date: Mon 27th Nov 2023. 17:53 Ref: veteraneastender Sun 26 Nov 12:32 "Hamas have used female suicide bombers in the past and the Israeli security agencies have thwarted a few attacks, presumably THESE ARE THE WOMEN being held in prison ?" [my capitals] ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Compare that original with this: Hamas have used female suicide bombers in the past and the Israeli security agencies have thwarted a few attacks, presumably THESE WOMEN ARE being held in prison ? That`s what VEE is suggesting he meant, i.e. something quite different. Now, VEE`s Nov 26 statement doesn`t say that. Will he admit it, or is he happy to leave it to mean perversely that all women in Israeli prisons are suicide bombers who survived? Post Edited (Mon 27 Nov 18:47) Reply |
| 284. Author: veteraneastender Date: Mon 27th Nov 2023. 18:21 Eh ? I`m totally lost where this is going, or has gone. Reply |
| 285. Author: onandupthepars Date: Mon 27th Nov 2023. 20:23 Ref: veteraneastender Sun 26 Nov 12:32 "Hamas have used female suicide bombers in the past and the Israeli security agencies have thwarted a few attacks, presumably these are THE WOMEN being held in prison ?" Ref: veteraneastender, Mon 27 Nov 17:36 "I have no idea, on a case by case basis, as to why Israel has imprisoned all the female Palestinians that they have [imprisoned].........except that SOME have commited violent crimes that merit being imprisoned." -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Funny that. The first statement is [all of] the women. The second is some of the women. The first statement labels, as suicide bombers, all the women GG referred to. VEE seems to have seen that, because he made the distinction. If I hadn`t pulled him up he`d have gotten away with his stereotyping of Palestinian women. I think it was accidental, but it`s very strange that he doesn`t want to admit to the mistake, and that he hasn`t got a clue how many of those women in Israeli prisons did anything at all that would justify locking them up. As I posted earlier from Amnesty International: " Israeli officials warned that Palestinians approaching the wall would be shot. By the end of 2019, Israeli forces had killed 214 civilians, including 46 children." Also, from Al Jazeera:common offences detailed in Israel’s list include: threatening security illegally entering Israel without a permit throwing stones “The main alleged crime for these detentions is stone-throwing, which can carry a 20-year sentence in prison for Palestinian children,” said a report published in July by children’s rights organisation, Save the Children." We don`t know right now, but we could just as well characterise the Palestinian women in Israeli jails, as protestors, fist-shakers, stone-throwers, and people without permits rather than anything else. Post Edited (Mon 27 Nov 20:43) Reply |
| 286. Author: MikeyLeonard Date: Mon 27th Nov 2023. 21:12 veteraneastender, Mon 27 Nov 18:21 You`re not the only one VE. Reply |
| 287. Author: Dave_1885 Date: Mon 27th Nov 2023. 22:58 Good thing is that hostages have been released over the last 4 days and it looks like the pause in violence has held - just. 2 more days to come as well though, then after that, what? Israel wont agree to a ceasefire until all “terrorists” are eliminated. I use terrorists loosely there as god knows how many civilians are trapped under the Gazan rubble…it shudders to even consider it to be honest. Be in no doubt that Hamas are a terror organisation, who need to hand over the remaining hostages and be cleared out, but theres no way theres 2M terrorists in Gaza to be cleared. Will the Western leaders finally stick up for these innocents caught in the crossfire? Or will they allow thousands more to die to avoid conflict with the Zionists? Reply |
| 288. Author: GG Riva Date: Tue 28th Nov 2023. 10:06 A hospital doctor on SKY news said they are caring for many injured children who have lost their families. Some are so young they can`t even tell them their own names. How incredibly sad is that? It`s a disgrace that no Western countries are calling for a cessation to this awful war. Even worse, some countries are arming both Israel and Hamas, ensuring it continues....  Not your average Sunday League player. Reply |
| 289. Author: onandupthepars Date: Tue 28th Nov 2023. 12:59 Ref: veteraneastender, Mon 27 Nov 18:21: "Eh ? I`m totally lost where this is going, or has gone." Ref: MikeyLeonard, Mon 27 Nov 21:12: "You`re not the only one VE." ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Top guys from the Intelligence Bureau.  Post Edited (Tue 28 Nov 13:26) Reply |
| 290. Author: veteraneastender Date: Tue 28th Nov 2023. 13:31 No point in labouring this, apparently opinions differ. Reply |
| 291. Author: onandupthepars Date: Tue 28th Nov 2023. 13:35 Ref: GG Riva Tue 28 Nov 10:06 "It`s a disgrace that no Western countries are calling for a cessation to this awful war. Even worse, some countries are arming both Israel and Hamas, ensuring it continues...." ----------------------------------------------------------- Can you identify "some countries," GG Riva? According to this article from Sky (Nov 3) - France, Spain, Portugal, Ireland were calling for a ceasefire. "Ceasefire A ceasefire would require Israel and Hamas to come to a formal, political agreement to stop fighting. It would involve the withdrawal of Israeli troops from Gaza and likely a pledge by Hamas to release all its hostages. A ceasefire would cover the entire geographical area of Israel and the Palestinian territories - and not just a particular zone." https://news.sky.com/story/israel-hamas-war-which-countries-are-calling-for-a-ceasefire-and-how-is-it-different-to-a-humanitarian-pause-12999373 Post Edited (Tue 28 Nov 13:50) Reply |
| 292. Author: GG Riva Date: Tue 28th Nov 2023. 15:04 onandupthepars, Tue 28 Nov 13:35 How about the UK and USA, for starters? I feel they should be putting Israel and Hamas under the strongest pressure to stop the mass slaughter. I don`t think Hamas would need much convincing, they`re in a war they can`t win. It`s a total mismatch. Not your average Sunday League player. Reply |
| 293. Author: onandupthepars Date: Tue 28th Nov 2023. 18:44 Is it not the case that America is cozy with Israel so as to keep a strategic presence in the Middle East? Seems a straightforward matter of policy, regardless of who`s killing who and how many. In other words, lives don`t matter, what counts is American foreign policy. What about UK? Appears to be similar, i.e. policy overrides any other consideration. Is it just a matter of keeping in with America. If so, then, on what basis can UK citizens hope to affect what`s happening? We can appeal that it`s against international Law, against human rights, against the UK`s official religion, against all sense of what it is to be human and humane. But none of those matter, if the UK government`s position, and that of it`s opposition in Parliament is based - as it appears to be - solely on foreign policy. Its` obvious to us that UK and US should have stopped selling arms to Israel, and should be doing a whole lot to oppose the war in Gaza. Let`s face it, they like to call it the Israel-Hamas war, but it includes everyone in Gaza. Mostly Palestinians. I don`t think it matters to Netanyahu what the world thinks. Who would he listen to? Not us or America. The annihilation won`t stop simply by Hamas laying down their arms.They`ve done that before, as I mentioned, in Lebanon in the 1980s, and what followed was total massacre, bombing hospitals etc, just as these days. Maybe Netanyahu has seen what Russia is getting away with and thinks - yeh, we`ll have some o` that. The rest of the world won`t do much. Reply |
| 294. Author: OzPar Date: Wed 29th Nov 2023. 04:17 Criticising Hamas for the attacks on innocent civilians on October 7 is warranted, but it`s essential to contextualise their presence in Gaza. Hamas is not ISIS by another name; many of the young men in Hamas have spent their entire lives locked inside the cage that is Gaza. Any normal sentient human being should readily understand their motivation. While armed groups have a right to resist military targets under occupation, targeting civilians is unacceptable. So, any Hamas fighters - or commanders - responsible for war crimes should rightly face legal consequences. But the world cannot ignore the massive atrocities perpetrated by Israel decade after decade. International humanitarian law, international human rights law, and international criminal law impose rules everybody must respect. They are not being respected now. In all wars, there are principles of distinction, proportionality, and precaution, you look for lawful means that will spare civilians. But the Israelis are not. There must be accountability for all perpetrators and redress for all victims. Benjamin Netanyahu, his cabinet, and the leaders of the IDF must appear before the international tribunals facing charges of war crimes. They have gone well beyond the boundaries of acceptable behaviour in war. The focus must extend beyond Hamas. The attacks on October 7 shouldn`t serve as a pretext for ethnic cleansing in Gaza. Israel`s true intentions, possibly revealed after the 48-hour deadline passes this week, may indicate a broader agenda beyond seeking vengeance. A calculated series of actions aimed at clearing southern Gaza in much the same way the north has been destroyed would have severe consequences for Palestinians. But more ominously, Israel would invite intervention from Hezbollah in Lebanon and its sponsor, Iran. And who knows where things go from there? What is certain is that things will not return to the status quo that existed before October 7. Knowingly or unknowingly, Hamas may well have triggered a series of reactions from the Netanyahu Government that ultimately ends the Zionist dream. Reply |
| 295. Author: Playup_Pompey Date: Wed 29th Nov 2023. 10:09 "What about UK? Appears to be similar, i.e. policy overrides any other consideration. Is it just a matter of keeping in with America." and you get Rishi telling everyone that Israel "must win this war"  Reply |
| 296. Author: OzPar Date: Fri 18th Oct 2024. 09:30 While searching to update the crypto thread, I came across this thread, which has lain dormant for many months. Studying the thread from the early days after the October 7 attack is fascinating, and it is intriguing to see if our views and perspectives on the conflict may have changed from a year ago. All in all, it is an interesting and quite inciteful read. Reply |
| 297. Author: Paralex Date: Mon 21st Oct 2024. 13:03 Yes, I would agree with that Ozpar, there`s a fair amount of collective wisdom in the above posts. My wife and I spent 3 months in Israel, 10 years ago. For most of that time we were working in the Scottish Edinburgh Medical Mission hospital in Nazareth. Most of the staff in the hospital were Arab/Israeli Christians, who had friends and relatives in the West Bank and Gazza. We heard several stories of their parents and grandparents being ejected from their homes in 1948 by the incoming Jewish settlers, aided by the British Army. There is no doubt that many peaceful Palestinians suffered real loss and hardship at the time, for which they have never been compensated. I suppose that most Christians throughout the world would have been glad that the Jews were at last beginning to settle in their homeland again but sad at the suffering of the displaced Palestinians. It`s no secret that the Israelis want to take over the whole land that was promised to them in the Old Testament and they have been trying to do that settlement by settlement since 1948. In retrospect, it seems to me that right wingers in the Israeli Parliament have never espoused a two state solution and are not willing to make any deals with Hamas or Hezbollah, if they can possibly get away with it. Every action of aggression by their opponents has been used as an excuse to further their objectives of taking the whole land. Post Edited (Mon 21 Oct 14:12) Reply |
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